First Reg Set, Planning for the future

[Stand_Tall]

Hello all! Looking into getting into Scuba, and was set enough to start looking around to start budgeting for gear too, I think buy once cry once is the motto right? Anyhow, being in Canada and being one who enjoys the cold, I was looking into the threads on cold water regulators, and it seems the consensus is the Apeks MCX-R or Poseidon Xstream. are there any other thoughts on nice reliable regulators that would be reliable? if I happen to choose to go diving during the winter months? I haven't seen much about the Atomic M1. Reading on the Xstream does make me wonder how adjusting to such a different regulator may be too for a new diver. Thank you all for your input!

 

[Mobulai]

Reading on the Xstream does make me wonder how adjusting to such a different regulator may be too for a new diver.

I only tried a Jetstrem not the Xstream, and out of water…
the purge on these things is mad intense, I now use it to clear out my sinuses when they are blocked
So I hear purging underwater is something you wanna develop some getting used to
That said, the xstream 1st stage is the toughest coldwater proof 1st out there
(I leave it to actual users to give more useful input)

buy once cry once is the motto right?

yea and no…
Further on in diving, you’ll develop preferences that might change your choices; I for example (not a coldwater diver) dive mainly in sidemount so my preference is having a swivel turret on my 1st: I ended up with Scubapro mk19/g260s to “future proof” when I delve into coldwater diving as well

The Xstream (like the jetstream) 2nd is an upstream servo operated valve unlike most other 2nds; so some people avoid that for “safety”/DIR reasons (I know that the GUE crowd frown upon it)
Some prefer adjustment knobs to detune the 2nd stage (for coldwater freeflow avoidance for eg)
Try and visualize what sorts of diving you might seek in the future if you wanna have things future proof

Atomic M1

Great piston reg with siwvel turret, and sealable for coldwater with cristolube; but that’s also a preference (cost of packing it every service)

Have you looked at this resource:

Info Thread 'How to Choose a Regulator'

Mar 4, 2022

How to Choose a Regulator​

(an overview of features and their value)

One of the first pieces of equipment that every diver will acquire is a set of Regulators. This is one of the most critical pieces of your gear as it enables you to breathe underwater and are considered to be life safety equipment. A challenge for many divers is there are a huge variety of options to choose from. Beyond taking the advice of your dive shop’s sales staff, how do you make an informed decision? Cost is one factor, but is expensive always better? How cheap is too cheap? What...

• davehicks
• Replies: 109
• Forum: ScubaBoard Articles

• 
• 

Might help with pinning down features you want in a reg

Edit: just noticed that you said looking into starting with scuba
I’d say first try some regs during your intro classes and see from there
Getting some hands on experience changes a lot of preconceptions (and preferences)

 

[Cdncoldwater]

You can’t go wrong with Apeks. I would also recommend Dive Rite as they have cold water regs as well. If you don’t want to upgrade later then look at a set with a swivel on the 1st as you may want that feature in the future. I dive a Apek DS 4 in back mount (parts for life to service) and the Dive Rite XT set in side mount, cheaper initially but I pay for service part kits. I was a certified technician on Apeks/Aqua Lung, Sherwood, ScubaPro and Dive Rite. They are all good brands, no experience with Poseidon though but they are also well respected. Also recommend you buy what can be serviced locally, better than shipping them every time.

 

[Stand_Tall]

I only tried a Jetstrem not the Xstream, and out of water…
the purge on these things is mad intense, I now use it to clear out my sinuses when they are blocked
So I hear purging underwater is something you wanna develop some getting used to
That said, the xstream 1st stage is the toughest coldwater proof 1st out there
(I leave it to actual users to give more useful input)


yea and no…
Further on in diving, you’ll develop preferences that might change your choices; I for example (not a coldwater diver) dive mainly in sidemount so my preference is having a swivel turret on my 1st: I ended up with Scubapro mk19/g260s to “future proof” when I delve into coldwater diving as well

The Xstream (like the jetstream) 2nd is an upstream servo operated valve unlike most other 2nds; so some people avoid that for “safety”/DIR reasons (I know that the GUE crowd frown upon it)
Some prefer adjustment knobs to detune the 2nd stage (for coldwater freeflow avoidance for eg)
Try and visualize what sorts of diving you might seek in the future if you wanna have things future proof


Great piston reg with siwvel turret, and sealable for coldwater with cristolube; but that’s also a preference (cost of packing it every service)

Have you looked at this resource:

Info Thread 'How to Choose a Regulator'

Mar 4, 2022

How to Choose a Regulator​

(an overview of features and their value)

One of the first pieces of equipment that every diver will acquire is a set of Regulators. This is one of the most critical pieces of your gear as it enables you to breathe underwater and are considered to be life safety equipment. A challenge for many divers is there are a huge variety of options to choose from. Beyond taking the advice of your dive shop’s sales staff, how do you make an informed decision? Cost is one factor, but is expensive always better? How cheap is too cheap? What...

• davehicks
• Replies: 109
• Forum: ScubaBoard Articles

• 
• 

Might help with pinning down features you want in a reg

Edit: just noticed that you said looking into starting with scuba
I’d say first try some regs during your intro classes and see from there
Getting some hands on experience changes a lot of preconceptions (and preferences)

I will definitely look into it much more once I do finish my open water course, I just wanted to get a vague idea of opinions and perhaps more suggestions to put onto my list of regulators to look into once I had finished OW, to help budget for afterwords. Thank you for the input!

 

[rsingler]

The Xstream (like the jetstream) 2nd is an upstream servo operated valve unlike most other 2nds; so some people avoid that for “safety”/DIR reasons

I see the upstream argument has one again reared its ugly head (not picking on you, @Mobulai).

Why do the US Navy and German armed services (among several others) use the Xstream? Answers: a second stage failure mode that does not bubble away, revealing your position. Second, the number of critical moving parts in an Xstream second is two: servo stem and the "umbrella" valve insert. Compare that with the standard barrel second, at four to seven, depending upon adjustment mechanism.

We've come a long way since the upstream tilt valve of the Healthways Scubair, and some later Russian seconds. Those indeed were "fail closed" deathtraps when we only carried one second stage. But we don't dive that way any more.
If you're at 100 feet and have a second stage failure, you grab your other second stage. And while this is happening, do you want your discarded second to be freeflowing away, since it fails open? Do you want to breathe off the freeflowing reg with rapidly dwindling gas at 100 feet? Indeed, it can be argued that it's  better to have a valve that fails closed. The Navy thinks so.

If you have a first stage failure with runaway IP, the two systems are equivalent. The barrel second vents excess IP via freeflow. The Xstream vents via an OPV. Either way, the enemy finds you. You should'a been CCR, except oops! The CCR first stage will bubble, too, lol.

As for what is felt to be a vigorous purge flow, I have two comments. First, many divers may be using too high an IP. If you're used to running to 135-140 psi, it may be hard to bring yourself to lower your first stage output to 123. But that's where the Jetstream/Xstream valve breathes the smoothest. But 135 it's still within spec. And at depth, the breathing characteristics are quite benign.
Second, remember that at the surface, IP is going from 135 psi to ambient (14.7). That's a nine-fold expansion! At 66 feet (3 atm) IP is going from 164 psi to 44 psi: only a 3.7x expansion. In other words, a purge at working depth is much more gentle.

For deep diving, the Xstream (and Mares 62x) is Norsok certified to 200m/600ft.
For cold water diving, the rolling Kevlar diaphragm is impossible to freeze up despite 4°C, 750 psi, hyperventilation to 62RMV, 50m depth and over 30 minutes in this condition. The ball of ice that comes out of the ANSTI machine is incredible, but the reg is still working.

Upstream servo? Meh.

@Bigbella posted this some years back:

Post in thread Trying to decide on a good cold water regulator.

 

[p_kos]

Atomic M1’s are solid in cold water (I dive them in the middle of a Canadian winter). Also have a look at Deep6 signature series.