first deco dive

[Doc Harry]

...deciding to test out the deco mode...

Another candidate for the Darwin Awards...

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Going into deco is not a sin, and you won't end up with a scarlet "D" on your forehead.

I did a little backgas deco before I did my "technical" class -- but I'd done three fairly intense classes involving critical skills and problem-solving at depth and as a team before I did it. And the deco was PLANNED, and the gas supply to do it was planned. The more deco you rack up, the more dubious doing it on a single tank is, both from a gas supply standpoint and a lack of redundancy. But if you have the education and the training, doing was BDSC is doing isn't reprehensible. The key is that it is pre-planned. Where deco gets people into trouble is when it ISN'T planned, and the diver is confused, doesn't have the information to know what to do next, doesn't have the gas to do the time, or can't handle any issues that occur during the time when it is unsafe to surface.

You are getting more and more liberal as you gain experience.

My answer to the OP is simple: if you are a recreational diver, with recreational training and recreational gear (say no redundancy), then "testing out the deco mode' on a computer because the idea popped into your head at depth is really not a good idea.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

It seems unlikely to me that a (presumably) single tank diver will have enough gas to incur a 40 minute obligation. I may be able to do it with a 120 and no current. Course then I won't have any gas left for deco, but I digress

Sounds like a computer malfunction to me from this comfy armchair.

No I am quite sure it is possible. On my hockey puck oceanic I often do a dive to say 185 for maybe 12 minutes time, rack up 15-20 min deco maybe? and if I wait an hour my computer is pretty happy and I can dive on nitrox to 80-100 feet for quite a while with no DECO.

But if I have 1 or 2 deco dives on the computer and go down below 120 ft the computer has a freaking COW and spanks me very hard with deco. You really need to pay attention on deep repetative dives after doing a deco dive.

Also, from what i understand the Oceanic is aggressive and a sunto would spank me with even more deco.

 

[joe8mofo]

Nah ... steel tanks got nothing to do with it. In fact, it's even easier to get yourself into real trouble with those oversize beer cans they use at most scuba resorts around the world ... because they don't hold a lot of gas, and you ain't really in trouble until you realize you don't have enough gas available to make it to the surface safely ... :shocked2:

Gear choices don't get people in trouble ... making decisions without understanding the potential consequences of those decisions gets people in trouble. That's why the "scuba police" are usually so adamant that proper training and experience are so important.

In diving, the answer to almost every decision you can make is "it depends" ... the trick is knowing what it depends on ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Allow me to clarify, I am all about steel tanks, in fact that is what I use on 90% of my dives. My point was for the discussion of incurring a significant deco obligation is relative to the newbie novice diver who is ignorant and accidentally goes way into deco because they have more available time at depth than with an AL80. But I guess this could be considered a moot point considering how many novice divers go through air when they are starting out.

You clarified the point I was trying to make by articulating its about making decisions while understanding the impact of those decisions: IE going to 100' with 118 cu ft can be a good decision if the dive is planned so you leave depth with an adequate amount of gas which could get your buddy and yourself to the surface after a decompression stop if equipment should fail.

 

[Rhone Man]

So were you reckless? No, but I suspect you didn't completely grasp the implications of what you were doing. I wouldn't make a habit of it.

Lynne nails it as usual.

Interesting that a lot of people are quick to slam the OP as reckless. But I have seen more than a few people on the board who have posted biting criticism of divers who get into a flap when they see their NDL dwindle to a minute or two on their computers.

1. The OP performed a reasonably harmless experiment.
2. There was a small chance something could have gone wrong.
3. But it didn't.
4. If it had, then most likely he might have got skin bends or something else non-life threatening.
5. He has asked how much trouble he was really in, and the preachers on the board just can't resist.
6. Despite the fact that many of them have no doubt done similar things in the past.
7. Thank goodness people like Bob and Lynne can express a bit more balance in pointing out his risks in a reasonable fashion.

 

[Blackwood]

No I am quite sure it is possible. On my hockey puck oceanic I often do a dive to say 185 for maybe 12 minutes time, rack up 15-20 min deco maybe? and if I wait an hour my computer is pretty happy and I can dive on nitrox to 80-100 feet for quite a while with no DECO.

But if I have 1 or 2 deco dives on the computer and go down below 120 ft the computer has a freaking COW and spanks me very hard with deco. You really need to pay attention on deep repetative dives after doing a deco dive.

Also, from what i understand the Oceanic is aggressive and a sunto would spank me with even more deco.

I guess I left out the context of this thread: at 120 feet.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

So? What's the big deal with that? I go into deco by 3 or 4 minutes. I am with my buddy the entire dive and he has a pony with him just in case it's needed. We hang together doing our deco/safety stop. I get back on the boat with just under 1000psi left in the tank. Where is the danger in that? There is approx. an hour and a half surface interval before our next dive.
Then why not plan the time and depth you actually want to do? Plan to run into deco, and have your calcualtions and gas.


What was reckless and careless about my dive? Is it just the fact I went into deco that makes it reckless and careless? What should I have done different?

No. It is fact that you apparantly did Not plan to go into deco. You should have simply planned it, made sure your gear matched the plan, and then had at it.


I certainly hope I don't end up in that forum. But if I do make it there, it won't be because I go into deco by a few minutes from time to time. Most likely it will be because I will solo dive now and then and have never had a "solo course".

Snide comments that have nothing to do with my post are unneccesary. Your plan and dive execution are your own business, until you make a post like you first did. Then you are encouraging reckless behavior. Just don't encourage others to regulary go into unplanned deco. That is foolish.

Thanks Bob. There are times I will, like you said, dive a little on the aggressive side. But before I/we do such a dive, my buddy and I will always discuss the dive before hand and make sure we are both comfortable in what we are doing.

So then you Are planning a deco possibility? I understand aggressive divers. That is a choice. But I don't encourage new divers to be that kind of diver.

Lynne nails it as usual.

Interesting that a lot of people are quick to slam the OP as reckless. But I have seen more than a few people on the board who have posted biting criticism of divers who get into a flap when they see their NDL dwindle to a minute or two on their computers.

1. The OP performed a reasonably harmless experiment. That is because nothing happened to go wrong. That was just good luck.
2. There was a small chance something could have gone wrong.This sport is not very forgiving when it does go wrong. Why take unneccsary risks?
3. But it didn't. That's a good thing.
4. If it had, then most likely he might have got skin bends or something else non-life threatening. So that makes it okay then.....
5. He has asked how much trouble he was really in, and the preachers on the board just can't resist.No. Read the posts. They basically said that he should really take time to educate himself on equipment and procedures. Then, have at it. That is not preaching.
6. Despite the fact that many of them have no doubt done similar things in the past. Nope. I haven't. I like training first and then diving. I want a long diving career.
7. Thank goodness people like Bob and Lynne can express a bit more balance in pointing out his risks in a reasonable fashion.

You know the OP knew he was taking a risk, however slight, when he did it. He states that. Then he came on, knowing he would be told the problems in what he did. He learned that he was, in fact, taking risks. He opted to take more courses and train further. Where is the problem here?

 

[BDSC]

Then why not plan the time and depth you actually want to do? Plan to run into deco, and have your calcualtions and gas.

No. It is fact that you apparantly did Not plan to go into deco. You should have simply planned it, made sure your gear matched the plan, and then had at it.

We were off the coast for one purpose and that was to film the sand tigers. They may be there and they may not be. If they are there they may be at the top of the wreck, they may be at the bottom, or they may be anywhere inbetween. I'm not sure what depth I'll be at. I'm not even sure if I'll be on the wreck for 30 - 40 minutes filming or maybe 15 -20 minutes just swimming around looking and returning because there is really nothing we want to film. As it turns out, they were there and we filmed. On all four dives we never went into deco by more than 4 minutes. On all four dives air and equipment was never an issue. I returned to the boat with just under 1000 lbs, he had just over 1000 lbs, and we had one pony between us. Perhaps on a dive like this you would feel the need to have a more formal type of plan and that's great. A diver should always do what they feel is necessary to keep them safe. Our plan was to keep a close watch on our computers and make sure we start our accent with plenty of air to get us back safely to the surface. We did exactly that. We've been doing this type of dive for years and have found this "plan" to work just fine for that type of dive. If attempting to dive the Andrea Doria I feel certain we would come up with a different plan.

Snide comments that have nothing to do with my post are unneccesary.

If there were any snide comments it started when you said if I keep diving the way I do then I'll end up in the A&I forum. I simply responded to your comment. We both know your initial comment was unnecessary and added nothing of value.

Your plan and dive execution are your own business, until you make a post like you first did. Then you are encouraging reckless behavior. Just don't encourage others to regulary go into unplanned deco. That is foolish.

I have never encouraged others to participate in reckless behavior in scuba diving or anything else for that matter. The OP simply asked if anyone thought that knowingly going into deco by two minutes with 1500 psi left in his tank was reckless and I told him I didn't think it was. Still don't think it is. Just because I don't think it's reckless doesn't mean I'm encouraging it. You read into my post what you wanted to read. Not what I wrote. That happens a lot on ScubaBoard.

So then you Are planning a deco possibility? I understand aggressive divers. That is a choice. But I don't encourage new divers to be that kind of diver.

Neither do I.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Interesting that a lot of people are quick to slam the OP as reckless.

Actually those people (of which I was the first) responded directly the question which was essentially "Was I reckless or not". I evaluated the two options and sided with reckless because it was more reckless than not IMO. Reckless may not be the right choice of words but many have chosen to stick with what the OP offered.

But I have seen more than a few people on the board who have posted biting criticism of divers who get into a flap when they see their NDL dwindle to a minute or two on their computers.

Watching it hover at 1 or 2 minutes is not the same as intentionally choosing to incur an unplanned deco obligation. Granted most rec PDC's will start out with little more than an extended safety stop with a ceiling but it is still a deco obligation. Riding the NDL like that is not exactly following a dive plan so it is not the most appropriate option either.

The OP performed a reasonably harmless experiment.

Did he know it was harmless when he made the decision at 60;', 70', 80', 220', 1000'? He did not have the training to make that decision so this was a bad decision from the get go.

There was a small chance something could have gone wrong.

Have a couple more beers sir. There is only a small chance you will get into an accident. And even then it would likely be a minor accident. Just a couple more.

But it didn't.

This is why most drunk drivers continue to drink and drive. Because they continue to get away with it.

If it had, then most likely he might have got skin bends or something else non-life threatening.

Just a small accident......it'll be nothing to worry about. Just a bump.

He has asked how much trouble he was really in, and the preachers on the board just can't resist.

Actually if you read the post again he asked if he was reckless or not in our opinions. No preaching.

Despite the fact that many of them have no doubt done similar things in the past.

VERY TRUE. And people will continue to do so. Does that mean everybody should tell them they did absolutely nothing wrong? That their decisions were sound and solid?

Thank goodness people like Bob and Lynne can express a bit more balance in pointing out his risks in a reasonable fashion.

Yes because not another poster on this board has good information and is capable of sharing it. (Lynne and Bob are great but they are not the only ones - sorry guys ) There are many great posters and some of them are in this thread. You just choose to ignore or misinterperet their posts.

 

[LanceLisenby]

Wow! I am so proud I started such a juicy thread. You guys are awesome to take the time to share your opinions. I have an awesome instructor and had to move all my Michael Crighton books to make room for all the diving books I've read. But scuba boards is like a coffee shop full of divers! Though some may need to switch to decaf lol
Thanks to you all for your insights
Lance