First BCD - BP/W?

[Tank601]

Ah, well for starters you never mentioned using anything other than a 3mm shortie,

You never provided any info regarding a 7mm suit.

As we discussed, if you add a lot more neoprene you will need a larger wing.

A typical 3mm full suit will be about 4-5 lbs positive. I'd guess a 7mm shortie could be 15 lbs positive, and most jacket type BC are inherently positive by 2-4 lbs due to foam padding.

3mm full suit ~ 5 lbs
7mm shortie ~15 lbs
Jacket BC ~4 lbs

Total 24 lbs


This is a *PERFECT* example of why I recommend actually testing the buoyancy of your exposure suit.


For the application you did describe, warm water in a 3mm suit with al 80's

Weight of your rig with a full tank:

Large SS plate and harness ~7 lbs
Regulator ~2 lbs
Full al 80 ~2 lbs

Rig max negative with a full tank -11 lbs

17 > 11 your rig will float if you ditch it

Your suit can only loose the buoyancy it starts with, 3mm suit ~5 lbs

17 > 5 the wing can *easily* compensate for the complete compression of your suit.

If your rig is -11 lbs with a full tank it will provide about 5 lbs of ballast with an empty tank. That's perfect if your suit is +5 lbs.

You *might* need 2-4 lbs in a belt, but I'd start with just the plate, reg and tank.

Tobin

What if I went with a dry suit - how much + is that?

 

[Phishie]

edit: cool_hardware clarified with much more detail and personal knowledge than I can provide while I was writing my response. Removed response in lieu of his.

 

[cool_hardware52]

What if I went with a dry suit - how much + is that?

I *really* have no idea. Drysuit buoyancy varies widely. It depends on the undergarment used, and to some extent the fit of the suit.

Just how buoyant is this suit and undies you don't yet own?

Selecting a wing for use with an exposure suit you don't now own can at best be a guess.

If you are trying to get one wing to serve all of your diving from 3mm shorties in warm water to future drysuits you will very likely end up with a wing far larger than you really need.

Tobin

 

[Colliam7]

What blows my mind is - I called DSS and they recommended for light setup warm water - 17lb winds with steel backplate. Which all makes sense - the way they added up neg and positive buoyancy. But the thing is I was diving cold water with a 3mm full suit and a 7mm shorty over it and 20lbs on the belt I could not swim to the bottom! no air in a scuba pro jacket bc ... Then I dove later with same setup but only a 7mm shorty with 23lbs and did fine. That kins of weight on a belt is a pain in the A**! What I am trying to do is shed the belt and weight - but dss was saying i might need 4 lbs at the most?? Am I missing something? Would the BC have that much negative buoyancy?

Tobin has already responded, but I will add a comment. Your diving rig, when you needed so much weight, was NOT a BP/W but a traditional jacket BC. By and large, these are positively buoyant, sometimes quite a bit positive. On the other hand, when you use a streamlined 6 lb SS BP with a simple web harness (no padding), it is quite negative relative to the jacket, so quite a bit of weight can come off your waist. Years ago, when I made the change from a Zeagle Ranger to a SS BP/W, I had the same experience - I dropped a great deal of weight. As Tobin mentioned, your exposure suit makes a difference as well, particularly for the shallower dives (at depth, where the neoprene is fully compressed, not so much). But, you should see a big difference in weight requirements between the jacket and the SS BP. But, it is better to think of the relative difference, rather than the absolute weight required. The absolute weight will depend on you, on the exposure suit (as Tobin mentioned, if you throw a drysuit into the mix, you really find variability), the environment (fresh vs salt), etc. But, if you are in a 3mm full suit with a shorty over it, and require 20 lbs of lead, and you change from a jacket BC to a SS BP/W, and everything else stays the same (mask, fins, whatever) you may see a reduction in the required weight of at least 50%. And, as for the surprisingly small absolute weight requirements that Tobin may have discussed, in fairness you did start of saying 'I dive wet - warm water with shorty - one tank'. If you dive only a shorty you will probably need less weight than with a 3mm full suit.

 

[fisheater]

Tobin has already responded, but I will add a comment. Your diving rig, when you needed so much weight, was NOT a BP/W but a traditional jacket BC. By and large, these are positively buoyant, sometimes quite a bit positive. On the other hand, when you use a streamlined 6 lb SS BP with a simple web harness (no padding), it is quite negative relative to the jacket, so quite a bit of weight can come off your waist. Years ago, when I made the change from a Zeagle Ranger to a SS BP/W, I had the same experience - I dropped a great deal of weight. As Tobin mentioned, your exposure suit makes a difference as well, particularly for the shallower dives (at depth, where the neoprene is fully compressed, not so much). But, you should see a big difference in weight requirements between the jacket and the SS BP.

Yep. I found a 10# difference between my Zeagle and my DSS BP. YMMV.

 

[CardShark]

Do you use a STA?

If you buy a BP that already has ( single-tank ) cam band ( tank strap ) cutouts, you won't need the STA at all. The STA would move the tank about an inch further away from your back.

 

[Jayde323]

If you look for a package online you can get everything you need for $200-$300. Though this will be the most basic variety (which some divers prefer). My second BP/W setup was this: TECHNICAL SCUBA BCD PACKAGE @ Divers-Supply.com .

I have this exact set-up and my husband has it in both the single and doubles version. We love them! Can't beat the price (super important for us since we have to get 2 of everything!) and the quality seems to be top notch. We have about 40 dives on each of our rigs and have had no issues what so ever.

Looking back, I would have loved my first set-up to be BP/W. Once you get the harness adjusted correctly, it feels like an extension of your body. I have some pockets that I can thread onto the harness, but the more I dive, the less I use them. As for weight pockets, I bought trim pockets that go on my tank straps for when I do need extra weight (besides the SS plate).

 

[Tank601]

I have this exact set-up and my husband has it in both the single and doubles version. We love them! Can't beat the price (super important for us since we have to get 2 of everything!) and the quality seems to be top notch. We have about 40 dives on each of our rigs and have had no issues what so ever.

Looking back, I would have loved my first set-up to be BP/W. Once you get the harness adjusted correctly, it feels like an extension of your body. I have some pockets that I can thread onto the harness, but the more I dive, the less I use them. As for weight pockets, I bought trim pockets that go on my tank straps for when I do need extra weight (besides the SS plate).

Do you have the sea elite or dive right cam straps with this righ - about a $30 difference?

 

[rrweather]

If your goal is to eliminate weight from your belt, then your goal should be to eliminate as much positive buoyancy as possible. When it comes a point where you can't eliminate anything else, then you can try substituting other gear for lead (using a SS BP, adding a light, using a weighted STA, steel tanks instead of AL, etc.). For some people, you can never eliminate the need for a weight belt because of body type. For others, like me, that need a lot of weight to counter the drysuit buoyancy, substituting gear for lead is the only way to carry less on the weight belt. It would be great to not need the weight but I'd rather carry the weight and be warm than carry less and freeze. If you need a 7mm suit, then you just figure out ways to make diving it possible. You can't change the buoyancy of the suit so you just deal with it. If you need a drysuit, you deal with the added weight.

 

[rstofer]

i figured $140 difference ...

Deep Sea Supply Rig = $470

Techical Rig

Basic Rig $250
2" Crotch Strap $16
DiveRite Cambands $55
Book Bolts $10
=====================
Total $331

I stand corrected, $140 difference.

And, yes, I would still buy the DSS rig. A loyal bunch we are!

But since I have that very same HOG wing and I use it with my double-hose regulators, I would be more than willing to dive the TECHNICAL PACKAGE as well. In fact, I have used that wing on at least 3 different plates and it works just fine.

Richard