First BC... Probably BP/W

[Lofty88]

Hi all :blinking:

Just after a bit of advice really! Probably gonna go for a Wing as my first BC (well, am gonna go for a Wing).

The 3 options really are the Tigullio T52 (Although that is more of a stab jacket than a wing...), the Buddy Tekwing, or the Seac-Sub Icaro Tech.

Now, i'm most probably going to go for the Icaro tech for a few reasons. First being it was by far the most comfortable and least restrictive jacket, although i have not tried it in water yet. Borrowing a friends next sunday to dive in a swimming pool with it

Also, at some point i probably want to diive with twins, which this BC allows, as well as being able to take singles. I'm assuming a new diver going straight to twins is probably a bit of a stupid idea? In the pool my instructor/friend said if i want i can try it with singles and twins, as apparently sometimes it can be a lot easier and more comfortable... i just felt a bit edgy about going straight to twins... is it not something that is discouraged?

But yeah, just seeing if anyone has anything of these BC's for +'s and -'s, or can recommend anything in roughly the same price range?! About £260/€370/$470 that i can get hold of in the UK?

Thanks a lot in advance!

Ben.

 

[*Floater*]

Hi all :blinking:

Just after a bit of advice really! Probably gonna go for a Wing as my first BC (well, am gonna go for a Wing).

The 3 options really are the Tigullio T52 (Although that is more of a stab jacket than a wing...), the Buddy Tekwing, or the Seac-Sub Icaro Tech.

Now, i'm most probably going to go for the Icaro tech for a few reasons. First being it was by far the most comfortable and least restrictive jacket, although i have not tried it in water yet. Borrowing a friends next sunday to dive in a swimming pool with it

Also, at some point i probably want to diive with twins, which this BC allows, as well as being able to take singles. I'm assuming a new diver going straight to twins is probably a bit of a stupid idea? In the pool my instructor/friend said if i want i can try it with singles and twins, as apparently sometimes it can be a lot easier and more comfortable... i just felt a bit edgy about going straight to twins... is it not something that is discouraged?

But yeah, just seeing if anyone has anything of these BC's for +'s and -'s, or can recommend anything in roughly the same price range?! About £260/€370/$470 that i can get hold of in the UK?

Thanks a lot in advance!

Ben.

Going straight to twins is fine IMO, but I'm probably in the minority in that opinion.

This is the Seac-Sub Icaro Tech you are looking at right?

25 KG of lift (55#) is quite a bit for single tanks, but since the wing has bungees it may not be an issue for you. Most people on these boards seem to prefer to use a non-bungee single tank wing for single tank diving and non-bungee doubles wing for doubles, that's what I use as well, though I have not tried the bungee solution.

Also, I like to use a crotch strap, though some people don't like them... personal preference I guess.

In the US you can get bp/w systems for around $470 give or take, but I'm not sure about the UK. You would probably have better luck asking at http://www.direxplorers.com/ (though they prefer Hogarthian bp/w rigs) or http://www.yorkshire-divers.com/ .

Good luck with you first BCD.

 

[MSilvia]

I've never used any of them, or even seen them in person, but I checked them all out online, and none of them is what I think of when I think of a BP/W.

The Tigullio T52 Hover is a jacket as far as I can tell. It's buoyancy cells wrap around the body, has no backplate I can identify, has a built-in harness, and does not appear to be modular or reconfigurable. It's probably a very nice BC, but if you want a BP/W, cross this one off of your list.

The Buddy Tekwing looks like a decent back-inflate BC, but it also has no plate, has a harness connected permanently to the wing, and does not seem to be reconfigurable. It's probably also a nice rig to dive, but you say you want a BP/W, and this isn't one either.

The Seac Sub Icaro Tech is a strange duck. I guess since it has a metal plate of sorts, a horseshoe wing connected to it, etc. It's technically a BP/W, but it's non-standard to say the least. It does not appear as though the wing is compatable with the usual 11" standard bolt configuration, and is instead connected via a series of straps around the perimeter of the plate. While that's not a problem in and of itself, it does mean that you might have to restrict yourself to that manufacturer's wings if you want to switch from a double tank to single tank wing size or vice versa. I could be wrong about that though... there do seem to be holes that wing isn't using. I'm also not sure how you would go about rigging it with a hogarthian harness if you wanted to... I've never seen a plate with that slot configuration. It says it's made of "avaition alloy", which is probably aluminium. If you're diving locally, you'll probably want a stainless steel plate to help reduce the additional weight you'll need to carry when diving. If I had to choose one of these three, it would probably be this one, but if I had complete freedom to choose, none of these would be a top choice for me.

For the record, a "standard" BP/W as I think of it has a backplate that looks like this, attached to a wing that looks something like this, making a completed rig that looks like this.

I'd hold off on diving doubles until you have single tank diving nailed. Doubles can take a little getting used to. That's not to say you can't start that way, but bear in mind that you'll likely have more gas than you have any real need for, and that gas will allow you to stay longer than your no-decompression limits at some depths. If you decide to go straight to doubles, make sure you have a rock-solid understanding of gas management, and the skills to apply it.

 

[Lofty88]

Wow, thanks a lot to the both of you! Some food for thought there...

Main reason i liked the Icaro was purely because of comfort, the Tekwing and T52 were also very comfortable, but Icaro definately came first there! I had tried on quite a few at that point as well.

The only reason i was questioning twins was that, although there is a bungee cord on the wing, apparently its a bit rubbish according to a few reviews i have read, and although it is possible to dive it with a single, using doubles was obviously more suited to this jacket.

Will certainly be having a look at some 'proper' BP/W configs though, and see if i can have a go with any before buying!

MSilvia, just a quick thing, regarding Gas Management, what is that referring to? Is that about NDL etc. or have i misunderstood?

Thanks a lot again for your advice!

Ben.

 

[TSandM]

Lofty 88, PM NWGratefulDiver about his gas management materials. I think he can e-mail them to you, and it's a lovely tutorial on the basics.

 

[sEANx32]

The Tigullio T52 Hover is a jacket as far as I can tell. It's buoyancy cells wrap around the body, has no backplate I can identify, has a built-in harness, and does not appear to be modular or reconfigurable. It's probably a very nice BC, but if you want a BP/W, cross this one off of your list.

Taken from their website:

Nice trim buddy!!! :no

I'd have to agree with MSilvia as that what I think of when people say BP/W. I dive a H BP/W with the Eclipse single tank wing. When I go doubles, I'll have to get another wing, probably OxyCheq. But brands are in the Ford / Chevy argument, and let's not get into that.

I personally, without diving them yet, can't see a real hard reason not to go straight into doubles. This being said, I don't know how comfortable you are in the water. You must have plenty of cash on hand. A cheap doubles setup will probably cost you $1000 US. Then you need to buy 2 1st stage regs on top of that to do it correctly(notice I didn't say do it right ). What might be a more logical path, might be to buy 2 steel tanks that you can double later, but run as singles for the time being.

A big benefit I see people do is run doubles, but dive them like 2 singles. With you're 3442 PSI, you might dive the thirds rule as sixths instead on 2 dives. You would plan your dive as only using about 1800 PSI on the dive. So, turn the dive after using 600 PSI. Use the other 600 PSI to get back to anchor, then you have the remaining to get back up the line. Then, on the second dive you do the same. These are rough figures, but you can see that if you used 500 PSI ascending the line the first time, you'd have about 500 PSI left when you hit the line the second time also. Remember, 600 PSI in double 80's is like 1200 PSI in a single 80.

I hope that wasn't too confusing. I also hope it gives you a little more food for thought.

-Sean

 

[RonFrank]

Hi all :blinking:

Just after a bit of advice really! Probably gonna go for a Wing

I'm likely going for a wing also tomorrow. But I do so like the Drumsticks!

Sorry, could not help myself!

As for this whole diving thing, I would STRONGLY suggest that you get some diving in using singles FIRST. I've talked to a few divers who do doubles about their experience. Some take to doubles like a baby to a tit, others, even after diving a lot, have a very difficult time with getting the transition down. I seems that AL80 doubles maybe easier to adjust to vs. Steel.

In any event, IMO going from zero to TECH is something that is not necessary, and may result in problems. I'm all for the gusto of that approach, but I'm not sure why the rush. You are certainly not going to do deco diving right out of OW certification?

Oppps, after re-reading the initial post you said BP/W not necessarily doubles off the bat. My bad, so I'm going to to with a wing tomorrow as well!

 

[MSilvia]

The only reason i was questioning twins was that, although there is a bungee cord on the wing, apparently its a bit rubbish according to a few reviews i have read, and although it is possible to dive it with a single, using doubles was obviously more suited to this jacket.

Bungied wings can be okay, although a quick search for "bungie" on this board will give you plenty of opinions why they may not be as well. In any case, so far as I know there is no wing design currently being produced that is good for both single tanks diving and double tank diving. You may find a number of wings that claim to be able to do both, and they can, but they don't usually do either particularly well. Personally, I have a wing I use for singles, and a wing I use for doubles. I connect the appropriate one to my backplate for the dive I'm doing.

MSilvia, just a quick thing, regarding Gas Management, what is that referring to? Is that about NDL etc. or have i misunderstood?

In the simplest terms, gas management is about making sure you and your buddy or team have adequate gas for the dive. It may involve a technique as simple as "swim out from the beach until we use just less than half a tank and then swim back" or as complex as calculating you and your buddys breathing rates, adjusting for depth, and making sure you each have enough gas to get you both safely to the surface if a critical failure occurs at the end of your planned bottom time and you both need to breath off the same tank as you ascend in cold water under stress while making any necessary stops on the way. As TS&M suggested, contact NWGratefulDiver for a great detailed explaination of how, when, and why to use different methods. In any case, get yourself in the habit of always knowing how much gas and time you've used on a dive. Before you look at your guages, guess what they say. This way, you'll cultivate an intuitive feel for how much gas you "should" have left at any given moment in the dive.

 

[Lofty88]

I'm likely going for a wing also tomorrow. But I do so like the Drumsticks!

Heheh i like it.

As for this whole diving thing, I would STRONGLY suggest that you get some diving in using singles FIRST. I've talked to a few divers who do doubles about their experience. Some take to doubles like a baby to a tit, others, even after diving a lot, have a very difficult time with getting the transition down. I seems that AL80 doubles maybe easier to adjust to vs. Steel.

Yeah, does sound a lot more logical Next sunday i'll be able to give twins a go in a swimming pool, so can see how it goes then.

A big benefit I see people do is run doubles, but dive them like 2 singles. With you're 3442 PSI, you might dive the thirds rule as sixths instead on 2 dives. You would plan your dive as only using about 1800 PSI on the dive. So, turn the dive after using 600 PSI. Use the other 600 PSI to get back to anchor, then you have the remaining to get back up the line. Then, on the second dive you do the same. These are rough figures, but you can see that if you used 500 PSI ascending the line the first time, you'd have about 500 PSI left when you hit the line the second time also. Remember, 600 PSI in double 80's is like 1200 PSI in a single 80.

Yeah, that was pretty much my thoughts with twins, at least for the time being.

I can certainly see the sense in having separate kit (ie for doubles and twins), but being what i am (Unfortunately a relatively poor student ) I figured it would make sense to plan a bit in advance to see what i thought i would be doing then...

I can afford to go for a doubles setup now (ie. the wing, cylinders, 2x sets of regs), whereas it would possibly be a waste of money to go for singles, then 6 months down the line end up with doubles anyway. Although a financial reason is certainly not the best reason to choose of course!

Will wait until sunday and see how i feel in a doubles setup and go from there.

Anyway, can't appreciate your comments enough, certainly an active forum here!

Thanks again,

Ben.

 

[Packhorse]

I saw my first Seac Sub BP/W(?) yesterday. Looks like a real nice, well built BC. But Id never buy one. Looks a bit too fancy and non compatabile with standard BP/W's. Not to mention the price. Its nearly 3 times as expencieve as the BP/W I am currently using.