Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[BDSC]

Yes. There is required to be a captain or mate awake at all times.

I guess it's just hard for me to see how a fire could have spread so quickly and engulf the boat to such an extent that at least one crew member had to jump overboard in his underwear if there was a night watch. It seems as if by the time the crew was up and awake, all they could do was jump.

I'm not saying that the person on watch had fallen asleep, but it would certainly explain how the fire was not detected until perhaps too late. It was the middle of the night and darkness all around. I would think the burning of a fire, even in the early stages, would have been noticed by a person who was awake and vigilant.

 

[Louisville Diver]

The Santa Barbara Sheriff is quoted as saying that "it appears that the berthing quarters exit and an escape hatch were blocked by fire."

The Latest: Exits likely blocked by fire on dive boat

Well, if you surround the egress area around the exit point of the emergency hatch with a crappy plywood box that doubles as a counter, then yes, a conflagration would likely block it.

 

[Louisville Diver]

An escape hatch does not need to lead to the outside. Just to another another compartment. As such, on these boats, the hatch comes out at the entrance of the dinning area. Which is right by the doors leading outside. So no madness but how vessels are built. Frank can add more details.

Another compartment, sure. However, to enclose it in a cabinet is just simply stupid.

 

[Ravenware]

Another click bait line was in the news. The coast guard asking the crew to unlock the door to let them out. There was no lock on the door. The coast guard knows nothing about the details of how the boat is built or operated. It was an interpretation off the radio call and trying to calmly help via blind remote control. Often all it takes is someone calmly asking to do something simple to solve a chaotic problem. Of course the news took that line, clipped it completely out of context, and aired it. Making it sound like people were locked in the cabins from the outside and that is why they can't get out.

As for the comment above about the reporter needing to be clubbed with a 2x4, I know better than to even listen to that clip. It isn't worth my time to give them the views they need to make there advertising quota.

 

[Ravenware]

I have stayed on that boat, my bunk was right under the stairs. The stairs go up to the galley, there is no door, but you do have to walk through the galley to get to the outside. The escape hatch also leads into the galley.

 

[EricTheDood]

This has nothing to do with an A&I thread, and needs to be moved elsewhere, but boats are specifically registered and incorporated to protect themselves from this exactly. As long as the owner was careful not to pierce the corporate veil, I wouldn't expect the other 2 boats to be affected at all.

It is relevant as long as we don't get too sidetracked with the details.

The point here is that those other two boats are floating death traps, just like the Conception, along with dozens of other dive boats docked in Santa Barbara, Long Beach, San Pedro, and San Diego.

 

[stuartv]

They generally don't have halon or Co2 systems because the passengers would die from asphyxiation if/when it is triggered.
They don't have city water pressure to feed a sprinkler type system.

I was thinking that the computer room/data centers of places I have worked had Halon fire suppression systems. What is the difference here? People in a computer room are presumed to be awake and can get out quickly?

I was also thinking of sprinklers like what are in my condo. Those are obviously designed to work even in rooms where people are sleeping. If it needs city water pressure behind it, why wouldn't there simply be a pump that is connected to the outside of the boat?

I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I really don't know anything about these things. I'm just trying to understand.

So far, from what @Wookie posted, what I got was that the reason these ships don't have these kinds of suppression systems is, basically, because USCG regs don't require them. Implying that they don't have them because of cost, I guess.

of note with all of the water discussions. If this was a lithium fire, water makes it worse. Pouring water on lithium fires releases hydrogen which is obviously highly flammable....

It seems like water that made a lithium battery (e.g. a camera battery) fire worse, but put out the flames that had spread anywhere/everywhere else would still be a wise tradeoff?

I'm thinking of it kind of like when I have a bonfire in a field. Sparks sometimes fly out and start nearby grass on fire. I don't have to put out the bonfire in order to keep things safe and put out the stuff nearby that catches.

I have played a fair bit with sodium and potassium and water. My uncle was a chemist and liked to bring home samples... I get how lithium can react with water. But, I'm thinking that a small pile of camera batteries that catches on fire, while they get worse, soaking everything around them to keep the rest of the compartment from going up in flames might be reasonable to give people time to wake up, get out, and/or deploy the proper type of fire extinguisher?

You can also use a bilge pump to suck the water out the ship. Not sure this is commonly done, but it's possible.

Don't all these kinds of ships have automatic bilge pumps? So, if a fire system started pumping water into one cabin, the bilge pump would at least substantially prolong the time until the ship was flooded? Unless it was like (I think) Wookie said and the fire pump and bilge pump were one and the same.

Regardless, for fire suppression, it would only be pumping into one compartment, right? And not the kind of volume that those fire hoses shown in the pictures were pumping. If the system kicked in quickly, it shouldn't really take that much water to put out a fire, should it?

I did a Blackbeard's cruise a month ago. This really has made it real for me how likely dead I would be if we'd had a fast fire in the galley/salon area.



Also, one of the guys that was on the BB cruise with us told us that he was there to get tuned up for his 2 liveaboards in CA at the end of the month (the end of August). I'm sure he said at least one of them was with Truth. I sent him messages yesterday morning and again this morning. No response yet. I'm not looking forward to seeing the passenger manifest from the Conception.

 

[Louisville Diver]

It is relevant as long as we don't get too sidetracked with the details.

The point here is that those other two boats are floating death traps, just like the Conception, along with dozens of other dive boats docked in Santa Barbara, Long Beach, San Pedro, and San Diego.

Every LOB doesn't have to rise to the level of an Aggressor, Wakatobi or Mike Ball operation, but surely to the Goddess they can be run at least as competently as Blackbeard.

 

[SomeGuy509]

Ignore the cabinet for a moment.

Even at let's say 20sec per person that is still 10min to egress everyone through that opening.

That egress point does not seem adequate if the other is blocked due to fire and you have a packed boat.

High pressure water must systems are pretty cool. Down side is the ones I have experience looking at use expensive stainless steel plumbing and need very powerful pumps to generate the required pressure/flow. Alternative was a large nitrogen bank to drive the water. Not cheap.

 

[rjack321]

I expect that safety requirements for vessels like this will change when the regulators have had a chance to read the NTSB's report.

Glad to see your optimism... Unfortunately, duck boats remain in operation across the US despite a truly hideous safety record. I expect to see a few minor changes. Perhaps around the carriage of lithium ion batteries like UN-38.3 and what aircraft have to abide with (assuming the cause is even traceable to these). Perhaps something about blocking egress with a bunk, the size of an emergency exit, or not having a ladder. Beyond that, I have my doubts.​

Something related to criminal negligence.

34 people are dead. 100% of paying customers are dead. 5/6 crew members are alive. This one isn't going to get swept under the rug.

Once all us internet warriors have figured out the culpability, I'm sure the DA will be filing charges against the 5 surviving crew asap.