Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[HKGuns]

Given the utter destruction of the wreckage I doubt any valid determination will be made.

I hope you are wrong. There are already clues and I'm sure one or more of the crew members knows something that hasn't been released. If breakfast preparation didn't start until 5am, as stated above, that pretty much leaves the door wide open to anything as the source of ignition. I refuse to speculate or offer solutions.

 

[Louisville Diver]

People are reacting with emotions throughout this thread and that is understandable, up to a point. It seems these boats were quite capable of operating for many years without horrific incidents such as this one.

I think it best to not pass judgment or lay blame until the facts are known. Same goes for proposing solutions to a problem that isn't yet known.

"The Beverly Hills Supper Club operated without incident for many years before burning up with hundreds of people inside. Surely that must count for something in the safety record. And what about the Triangle Shirtwaist operation, doing fine for so long?"

 

[DiveFlyDive]

“
CG: Roger, are they locked inside the boat?

Vessel: (Unintelligible)

CG: Roger, can you get back on board and unlock the doors so they can get off?

Vessel: (Unintelligible)

CG: Roger, you don't have any firefighting gear at all, no fire extinguishers or anything?”

It seems that the coastguard operator was hearing the replies clearly... this is very ominous. Surely they didn’t lock the hatch?

 

[Scared Silly]

the rate charged by this aggregator was way too low, and that is the problem, because the industry responds to demand for thrift by cutting corners - INCLUDING SAFETY.

This isn’t just about a tragedy for the victims and owners, this is about culpability - and quite possibly, some crimes.

While your points are well taken, you are conflating issues. The vessel in question met the safety requirements as specified in the CFRs. At this point the NTSB will look at the incident and out of that changes may come in the form of new CFRs because the current requirements are possibly inadequate. For instance, aircraft must be able to evacuate X PAX in Y seconds. Perhaps there needs to be similar requirements for sea faring vessels with PAX in berths. I could also see a requirement that there must direct vertical access (clearance) to a hatch of Z inches (i.e. one can not crawl into a bunk first). This might mean the top bunk on both sides of the hatch are removed and the hatch made wider so two people can egress at the same time. Or the six bunks are removed and replaced by three perpendicular with steep dual ladder leading to a hatch.

As a sporting community, we need to expect more from our providers - the boat and basic operations are supposed to be the safe point of the process. If that means that your $650 three night California liveaboard is now $1000 in order to rise up to an industry wide safety standard, then that is worth that price.

There are many variables to consider. Which unless one has very close ties to the industry I doubt most understand. But again the vessel in question met the safety requirements.

 

[DrMack]

I thought about this incident a lot last night, I really didn’t sleep well. I get up and see it all over the news again.
I’ve been running theories over and over in my mind about what could have caught fire so fast and what could have been an ignition source.
I’m thinking it was a battery in a charger that ignited. The huge fuel source I think was a large grouping of boat coats hanging directly in the area of a battery charging counter. I’ve never been on the Conception, but from a few photos that have been posted I saw boat coats hanging in the gangway into the salon. Boat coats are made 100% out of synthetic material that I seriously doubt have any fire retardant qualities. Maybe someone with prior experience on the Conception can fill us in on the proximity of clothing hanging area and battery charging area?
I don’t know if we are allowed to speculate and discuss yet, if not moderators please delete as you see fit.

This is the type of speculation that I think is healthy for us to discuss, even if at the end of this investigation it turns out to be something else altogether. We are aware of how dangerous lithium ion batteries are, especially during the charging phase. I think I have met more photographers who are divers than I have divers who are photographers. There are few situations in our society where we might see a higher concentration of such devices in an especially hostile environment than a dive boat at sea. My gut feeling that I know is shared by many in our sport, is that industry standards for stowing and managing lithium ion battery powered equipment are inadequate. The aviation community continues to understand and mitigate the risks of this technology far better than the marine industry at present. We should learn from the aviators and perhaps even one-up their initiatives.

 

[DrMack]

“
CG: Roger, are they locked inside the boat?

Vessel: (Unintelligible)

CG: Roger, can you get back on board and unlock the doors so they can get off?

Vessel: (Unintelligible)

CG: Roger, you don't have any firefighting gear at all, no fire extinguishers or anything?”

It seems that the coastguard operator was hearing the replies clearly... this is very ominous. Surely they didn’t lock the hatch?

The "get back on board" remark indicates that the call was made from off the Conception, a handheld perhaps? Or possibly from the Grape Escape. That would also explain the negative response to the question about whether fire suppression equipment was at hand.

 

[Johnoly]

...We are aware of how dangerous lithium ion batteries are, especially during the charging phase. ...

There also is no 'boom' when Lithium batts explode to wake someone up. There is just huge fire ball in all directions.

 

[Tricia]

Thank you for the video Somesbar. It truly gives you a feel for what the poor people would have had to go through to get out through the galley and salon.

 

[doctormike]

"The Beverly Hills Supper Club operated without incident for many years before burning up with hundreds of people inside. Surely that must count for something in the safety record. And what about the Triangle Shirtwaist operation, doing fine for so long?"

I think that you are making a good point, and an even better historical analogy is the Coconaut Grove fire, in terms of longstanding impact on regulations. 492 dead. Read about it.

A lot of the building codes we have today come in some way from that, like egress doors and exit markings. Not to mention big advances in the medical and surgical management of burn injuries...

"Other avenues of escape were similarly useless; side doors had been bolted shut to prevent people from leaving without paying. A plate glass window, which could have been smashed for escape, was boarded up and unusable as an emergency exit. Other unlocked doors, like the ones in the Broadway Lounge, opened inwards, rendering them useless against the crush of people trying to escape. Fire officials would later testify that had the doors swung outwards, at least 300 lives could have been spared."

I know that we tend to get defensive in the wake of a tragedy like this, especially if we have had good experiences with the dive op before. I'm not ready to place blame yet, and we obviously don't have all of the information. But I would certainly be interested in hearing what more experienced mariners have to say about that bunk room layout. Just like dive accident analysis, this is how we learn, this is how we do better.

 

[bigDave]

"The Beverly Hills Supper Club operated without incident for many years before burning up with hundreds of people inside. Surely that must count for something in the safety record. And what about the Triangle Shirtwaist operation, doing fine for so long?"

A safety "record" is exactly that. Nothing is 100% safe. A lot of incidents arise due to factors that were unforeseen when the safety systems were put in place.

Look at this incident. Had this been an ordinary fire (kitchen for example), it likely would not have grown so quickly. If the fire had not grown so quickly, the crew would have organized an evacuation. However this happened, the crew had no chance to evacuate the passengers - they barely escaped and several suffered significant injuries in the process.

This is the type of speculation that I think is healthy for us to discuss, even if at the end of this investigation it turns out to be something else altogether. We are aware of how dangerous lithium ion batteries are, especially during the charging phase. I think I have met more photographers who are divers than I have divers who are photographers. There are few situations in our society where we might see a higher concentration of such devices in an especially hostile environment than a dive boat at sea.

Is it common to leave batteries on charge overnight? If so, perhaps that practice should be forbidden.