Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[Akimbo]

Fire sprinkler systems trip with heat, not smoke or fumes.

True, I apologize if my inartful phrasing led anyone to think otherwise. The important part is a fire that is quickly extinguished will generate less smoke and toxic gas than one that burns longer and expands. Smoke detection has the advantage that most fires begin smoldering before bursting into flames and generating enough heat to burst the glass vial the holds a sprinkler valve closed.

To be clear, fire professionals' first priority is prevention followed by smoke alarms, and then sprinklers. Nobody would ever suggest sprinklers only.

Edit: This was written before seeing @Bob DBF's excellent post above or I would have referenced it in the paragraph above.

 

[shoredivr]

But when California is at your back door, it is a place to go. Few hours on the road and you are there. I've driven from AZ to San Diego, and home again in a day. A very long day, solo, not the best idea. And a LOT of people live in or near southern California. Not many travel long distances to dive California. It's a cheap local trip. Check locations of people on boats and they are less than a day's drive away.

By contrast when I was doing the U352 earlier this summer the boat had people from AZ (2 different groups), Oklahoma, and Wisconsin. It was a day boat, not a live on board. That was more of a destination that brought people in. Very different than California. It was also warm water. A year before I did the Oriskany and there was a group that took half the boat that also had a huge road trip to get there. I forget where they came from but was impressed they drove that far.

I have not gone through the Conception Manifest (I really have no need to), I know from local news that 2 were from AZ. I recall from early reports that most were local to California. I know California is unique, but I feel it is mostly a draw for the locals.

Broncobowsher, I’ve dived California including Catalina Island, and enjoyed it very much. Somewhat similar to BC cold water diving. My point was how do other cold water liveaboards function in terms of safety, it’s all cold water.

 

[markmud]

The only way to be 100% safe on a dive boat is to never set foot on a dive boat.

Hi lexvil,

I think I understand your intent---there are risks involved no matter what safety precautions are taken.

The problem with tying your thought to a boat is that we face risks for everything we do. The only way to avoid risk is to, really, check-out of life. Everything has risks.

To paraphrase Bob DBF: Dangers are mitigated, not eliminated.

Hi PDX Diver,

You wrote: "And ironically two of the least desirable bunks on the Vision may become the most coveted, those directly under the escape hatch. No one was sleeping in those bunks on my trip, though admittedly I was close and had it scoped. "

That rack was not my last choice; it was my first. I gravitated towards that rack as quickly as I could ambulate.

cheers,

markm

 

[lexvil]

Hi lexvil,

I think I understand your intent---there are risks involved no matter what safety precautions are taken.

The problem with tying your thought to a boat is that we face risks for everything we do. The only way to avoid risk is, really, check-out of life. Everything has risks.

To paraphrase Bob DBF: Dangers are mitigated, not eliminated.

cheers,

markm

You got my point exactly, after all is said and done we strap a high pressure bomb to our back and go underwater while counting on a few little bits of rubber and plastic to keep us alive. All we can do is take reasonable steps to mitigate the inherent dangers, reasonable steps toward prevention of risk but ultimately the very act of diving has much more risk than sleeping in the well deck of the average dive boat. Not that some of these things under discussion aren’t good ideas but never forget that nothing is 100% safe.

 

[Bob DBF]

Just occurred to me - a requirement from PADI Boat Diver Specialty, one of the "lightweight" certs that perhaps now takes on a bit more importance/value. Seems like just common sense, but putting it on a required "To Do" list for a cert sure doesn't do any harm...

Locate important emergency/safety equipment aboard the boat (such as: first aid kit, oxygen, AED, dive flag, radio, life jacket or other flotation devices, and fire extinguisher).

And if you want to think outside the box, the USCG Auxiliary has basic boat safety and seamanship classes. They are aimed at the pleasure boater, but the information is good, and useful, for small boat skipper or passenger. And the classes are cheaper than a cert, although they hand certificates as well. The link will refer you to local classes.

USCGAUX Public Education Classes - Find By Zipcode


Bob

 

[Ken Kurtis]

LET'S NOT LOSE SIGHT OF THIS:
This was not a diving accident.
This was a BOATING accident where the victims were divers.
This could just have easily involved kayakers, nuns, or Girl Scouts.
Everything we're discussing applies to ANY boat, ANYWHERE in the world, where passengers sleep overnight (and usually on a lower deck).
Whatever we learn from this and whatever changes we make going forward will have HUGE applications far beyond our small industry.
In the same way the Titanic disaster caused a re-design of cruise ships and a re-thinking of safety, the Conception disaster will have a similar effect.
If going forward all people out of the water can be safer and more aware because of this hole in our heart, then our friends will not have died in vain.

- Ken

 

[Akimbo]

I just got an E-mail from a friend who is aboard the Nautilus Gallant Lady in Cabo's harbor. The departure was delayed by the owner, Mike Lever, who decided to install a fire suppression and sprinkler system below deck. He also had a contractor make an additional escape hatch for the below deck state rooms. He also wrote "The Conception has really gotten the attention of dive boat operators".

I asked him to take pictures and get specs on the sprinkler system. He should be back in a week or so.

I just got a reply from my friend aboard the Nautilus Gallant Lady.

"Will do — we also did a fire drill muster this afternoon before we left port today -- new rules onboard: no charging li-ion batteries in cabins: no charging batteries when people are sleeping. Watchman in duty at night.
I will try to get some photos for you."

Credit to @Sam Miller III for this insightful quote from one of his E-mails:

"I think that we are a witness to history... there will be huge changes in not only Cal boats but dive boats world wide."

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

LET'S NOT LOSE SIGHT OF THIS:
This was not a diving accident.
This was a BOATING accident where the victims were divers.
This could just have easily involved kayakers, nuns, or Girl Scouts.
Everything we're discussing applies to ANY boat, ANYWHERE in the world, where passengers sleep overnight (and usually on a lower deck).
Whatever we learn from this and whatever changes we make going forward will have HUGE applications far beyond our small industry.
In the same way the Titanic disaster caused a re-design of cruise ships and a re-thinking of safety, the Conception disaster will have a similar effect.
If going forward all people out of the water can be safer and more aware because of this hole in our heart, then our friends will not have died in vain.

- Ken

As far as this disaster having far reaching effects on other passenger vessels, I think you’re half right.
At least in the US, until the hammer comes down with 100% compliance across the board with new safety rules and regulations, design changes, new updated construction materials rulings, etc. there’s still that darned grandfathered-in thing.
At some point we’re going to have to take a hard look at economics, the right to operate under existing rules, and mandating new rules. It’s going to be tricky trying to please everyone, not put certain people out of business, and not piss off the new guy wanting to get into the business who is faced with a brick wall of new regulations while the long time grandfathered charter gets to keep on going as they are.

 

[chillyinCanada]

I'll be really surprised if I start seeing massive change worldwide. But we may hope.

 

[RockiesFan]

Ferries and other boats sink across the world with even larger casualty counts. The tragedy of this event is immense and I expect to see changes in our part of the hemisphere and within dive circles, but I would be surprised if this spurs large scale improvements worldwide as well.