Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[Mindless]

Any problems with individual divers taking their own smoke alarm onboard and keeping it at their berth?

I know of a few who people travel with a personal smoke/CO detector, although I've never seen one on a Liveaboard. It seems to be more common when traveling to those remote backwaters of the world where safety can be an unregulated afterthought. People who use Airbnb frequently are also known to carry their own. I'm not sure how much value it would be on a Liveaboard, but one of the mariners here would have speak whether there would be any objection to this.

There has been a lot of discussion in this thread about what the boat operators can do, but was going to make much the same point that @Ken Kurtis did above. There is a lot we can do as divers -- i.e., actually paying serious attention to the safety briefings, personally testing the escape hatches to ensure that we can work them, and making a note as to the location of exits, fire extinguishers, etc. We can avoid knock-off chargers and batteries, use fireproof storage and charging containers, and monitor the batteries we're charging and promptly unplug them when they're done. I'm sure if we think about it, there are many other simple ways we can help make these boats safer for ourselves and others.

 

[Akimbo]

You don't expect a fire to become involved so quickly as to block a primary exit unless there is an accelerate involved.

You might not but safety engineers do. Have you seen how fast fires can spread in buildings or on boats? Upholstery, foam cushions, bedding, and normal habitability materials may not be classed as accelerants but are not far from them. "Fire resistant" materials are intended to not catch fire from smaller heat sources, like a cigarette. All bets are off with an electrical short on a 15 amp plus circuit.

 

[PDX Diver]

One more thought on this.

Regardless of what any of the boat operators do or don't do (and I commend Mike Lever/Nautilus for being quickly proactive), the way divers perceive the situation has radically, suddenly, and unalterably changed as of the morning of September 2. Especially for SoCal divers, where we've had constant news stories about this for the last 12 days (today is the first day that there's not a front-page story in the L.A. Times about the accident), there is no way you're ever going on any boat again with the same attitude you had prior to the accident. You will look at escape hatches, escape routes, tightness of quarters, battery charging stations, fire extinguishers, and everything else we've been talking about. You will no longer just come on a dive boat without a heightened awareness of fire hazards and what the various responses will be available to you should something go wrong.

As I've said frequently in media interviews, hopefully something good can come out of all of this. And regardless of where we go from here, that heightened sense of awareness on the part of divers is a positive step forward.

- Ken

And ironically two of the least desirable bunks on the Vision may become the most coveted, those directly under the escape hatch. No one was sleeping in those bunks on my trip, though admittedly I was close and had it scoped.

I saw a pic of one these bunks where it was not surprisingly being used to store gear.

 

[BRT]

The opposite is generally true. Sprinkler systems in buildings are designed to save people, by extending safe evacuation time, not property. However, they usually save a both.

The whole purpose of fire sprinkler systems is to extinguish fire quickly, before it spreads. That means less smoke and toxic gasses are generated. It also means the fire doesn't have time to compromise the structure and stability of the vessel. I agree that detection and egress are equally important because:

• Sprinklers might not succeed, especially in the case of a fuel fire.
• Egress is equally critical for sinking, collisions, and grounding.
• Any system can fail, especially in salt air environments. Redundancy is good.

Fire sprinkler systems trip with heat, not smoke or fumes.

 

[PDX Diver]

You might not but safety engineers do. Have you seen how fast fires can spread in buildings or on boats? Upholstery, foam cushions, bedding, and normal habitability materials may not be classed as accelerants but are not far from them. "Fire resistant" materials are intended to not catch fire from smaller heat sources, like a cigarette. All bets are off with an electrical short on a 15 amp plus circuit.

Yes, but every one I've seen still takes minutes, and I think you could get at least most out of that bunk room if detected early. But certainly not out that little escape hatch.

Not having a smoke detector in the compartment above the sleeping quarters is just a head-shaker for me.

 

[cerich]

Here's what I wrote/posted last week as part of a much lengthier post (available on the landing page of www.reefseekers.com if you're interested):

At Reef Seekers, we don't really do overnight trips anymore on CA boats, but we certainly do overnight trips on foreign vessels (which may be subject to LESS regulation than US-flagged vessels). Next month, we're going to the Maldives on a liveaboard. In December we'll be in Mexico on another. Here are a couple of things we are implementing as Reef Seekers policy immediately:
(1) Once we have everyone on board, before the boat leaves port, and before anyone goes to sleep, we will as a group have a thorough walk-thru of the bunk/stateroom areas, clearly identify what the escape routes are, and review how to exit that area in the event of a fire, let alone one in the middle of the night.
(2) We will have that same discussion in reference to the boat capsizing and inverting.
(3) We will re-review this information with everyone halfway through the trip.
(4) We (meaning me or anyone else who is our group leader) will review with the captain of the vessel, what their procedures are for overnight watches, and whether that is roving or stationary or what.
(5) In an abundance of caution, we will unplug ALL battery/cell/computer/etc. chargers before the last person in our group goes to sleep each and every night.
(6) The group leader, in conjunction with the boat captain or boat DM, will test the boat smoke alarms on board EVERY NIGHT to insure they are working.

EDIT (added) - I've also suggested divers think about carrying a portable smoke alarm with them and get it in their sleeping area. Certainly works for local trips and I can't find any TSA reg that would prohibit them in checked or carry-on for foreign trips.

That's awesome, may I add a suggestion? Many folks have never used a fire extinguisher, invite your folks to come out and learn how and use on a real fire, then make sure they note where they are on the boat when you do your safety tour. Amazing how many people will pass an extinguisher in the way to tell someone like crew about a small fire because they don't have confidence to use said extinguisher..and they are easy and almost always work well.

 

[lexvil]

The only way to be 100% safe on a dive boat is to never set foot on a dive boat.

 

[Bob DBF]

I've been looking through the Internet for fighting a fiberglass fire with water an have had little luck, although someone will sell me a fire boat, which would do the trick although it is expensive and hard to carry. Most results involve pleasure craft and private yachts, and their approach to fire safety. A good read is https://www.soundingsonline.com/boat-shop/fire-on-board-heres-what-to-do

1. Prevention. - insure boat is properly maintained and everything functions properly. Shipshape is not just a word, it's a way to prevent accidents.

2. Detection. - functioning detectors and alarms. More important is being on watch for anything you see, hear, smell, or touch that is unusual and find out why. A small anomaly you find could be the start of a much larger problem, that if addressed immediately will stop an incident.

3. Firefighting. - even large pleasure boats are equipped to put out a small fire, and/or buy time to evacuate people. The warning is if the fiberglass starts burning, evacuate the boat and get out of the smoke, it is toxic and it will kill you. Make sure the gear is there and ready, #1, and you know how to use it.


The Conception is the size of a large pleasure craft, draw your own conclusions on how this applies.

As I've said frequently in media interviews, hopefully something good can come out of all of this. And regardless of where we go from here, that heightened sense of awareness on the part of divers is a positive step

Well said.

One thing I would like to see come out of this is for divers to work on being mariners as well. "Cattle boats" is a derogatory term I've heard, and mostly used to denote crowded conditions. The way I hear it is derogatory, because it's a group of people that don't understand that their life is just as dependant on the boat for their wellbeing as the crew, but are too involved in themselves to know or do anything about it.

It dosen't take much to start being an asset to the crew, an able seaman starts out knowing little, but learns.

1 listen and learn from the boat briefings, a lot of info about safety, being a good shipmate and keeping your gear shipshape has been in ones I've heard.

2 know where the safety gear is, and as time goes on, how to use it, you may be the only one there wtshtf.

3 keep your eyes and ears open, if something is wrong or weird to you talk to a crewman about it, it may be nothing or... I spotted a diver in distress while scanning the ocean, before the crew did, they can't see everything, and when back aboard it was one of the group I was with. An old ingrained Navy habit of keeping a lookout while bullshiting with a buddy.

4 it's like diving, there is a lot to learn, but over time it's not that hard. And if you frequent the same boat(s) over time they well be glad to see you for something other than your fare.


Bob

 

[JackD342]

Just occurred to me - a requirement from PADI Boat Diver Specialty, one of the "lightweight" certs that perhaps now takes on a bit more importance/value. Seems like just common sense, but putting it on a required "To Do" list for a cert sure doesn't do any harm...

Locate important emergency/safety equipment aboard the boat (such as: first aid kit, oxygen, AED, dive flag, radio, life jacket or other flotation devices, and fire extinguisher).

 

[SeaHorse81]

The charging station could be on a timer that had to be reset every say 30 minutes. If no one was around to perform a reset, it would turn itself off.

This seems like a brilliantly simple way to make a difference that matters.