Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[nathm055]

Yes the stand alone alarm minimum requirement for a vessel of this size and stated purpose surprised me as well. I would think that interconnected alarms with battery backup and emergency lighting, with the alarms wired to a central panel in the wheelhouse, with visual and audible alarms would be a welcome improvement.

However, keep in mind, the NTSB can only make recommendations. The regulatory agencies of which the USCG would be governing in this case I assume, would need to adopt those recommendations and give them the force of law.

I totally agree and was surprised to hear that this is not the case for boats of this type. Most apartment buildings and hotels have interconnected alarm systems because of the nature of such buildings: there can only be a few points of entry/egress for lots of vertically stacked people and therefore there is substantially higher risk from a fire at ground level or on lower levels. Therefore, a fire in one part of the building is basically considered as a fire in the entire building.

I understand that smoke/fire alarm requirements such as these these were not written into the regs, and am not implying that the owners were at fault, but it seems that going forward this is a pretty commonsense way of reducing risk. Especially due to the VERY bottlenecked/impacted sleeping quarters. It seems especially critical to consider that a fire on one part of the boat is a fire on the entire boat.

 

[shoredivr]

We, as humans do not like things we cannot control; to think that the cause of this could just be a faulty piece of gear and not a mistake made by a human, (which of course we would never make) makes us feel safer. And, to Cerich point, how many lithium batteries do we use daily?

For a dive trip, I have my dive computer; phone; tablet; camera and spare battery; camera lights and wireless headphones, and that is a basic trip. For serious photographers, they have bigger camera's and lights,

The issue is not new and there have been many improvements, but as long as people buy inferior product, (usually unknowingly) and treat it like any other battery, we will have issues. The TSA publishes a report of only lith issues, and it is extensive. I have no problem imagining an explosion either on the charging table that caused everything else on the table to catch fire, or in the bunk room.

I have been on that boat, my bunk was under the stairs, all bunks have curtains, people have their clothing spread out in the bunk, lots of flammables. There are some outlets in the bunk room, and I can easily see someone deciding to utilize it for something.

And if there was a watch person awake in the wheelhouse, it is easy to see how they may not have seen it start, because it is behind and below the area. Especially if it started in the bunk room which has been implied.

It has caused me to rethink how and where I purchase, handle and travel with lith batteries. Unless you buy directly from the brand website, you really do not know if you are getting an inferior product, and that inferiority could be drastic, such as not using the right configuration of raw materials, and certainly having smart batteries that sense when they are full and stop charging. Overcharging can be a real issue.

I have a trip coming up in October to dive the Seychelles; and I am absolutely taking all my removable batteries in a Li Po safe container. Even at home we are rethinking how we charge and store anything battery related.

How about returning to NiMH batteries when possible; they don’t have the same problems....

*edit* sorry Mods didn’t see the note above, move this if needed. Should be NiMH battery, not NiCAD.

 

[Ron Lee]

I would choose to have good smoke/heat alarms, safety measures on charging tables and wiring, and a well-thought out evacuation plan that doesn't involve using power tools in the dark or building the hull flimsy enough to easily cut through. The Channel Islands ain't Cozumel. On a small liveaboard (Second Stage), we got bashed around hard enough on the way to San Nic to bust open our freshwater tanks.

It appeared that this event was while anchored with calm seas. All the points you raised about detection, charging batteries etc make sense yet something failed. If you look at my five points to be addressed, things appear to have failed in at least two areas. Whatever caused the fire may have been a ship system or something brought on board by a customer/crew member. Then the detection/alerting system may have failed. Fire suppression may not have been possible with even additional fire extinguishers located from a spot not on fire.

The final point about a good escape plan is that with both escape routes blocked by fire, there was no alternative. Even the 2 foot square hatch seems marginal under good conditions. I suspect that there may be a viable option but it requires preplanning on what will be cut open and will require more than hope and a prayer. It will require a tool of some sort and my starting point for discussion is something similar to that small circular saw.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

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We can not determine the cause here but discussing possibilities may help to prevent future tragedies.

34 Casualties DNA identified

• SB Sheriff Brown (Coroner) states probable COD smoke inhalation
• last victim found 11 Sept

Conception compliant met or exceeded applicable USCG requirements on last inspection implies approved; fire alarms, fire fighting equipment and escape routes

• Grandfathered for inspection requirements. Discussion here
• USCG issue Safety Information Bulletin 10 Sept 2019
  
• Certificate of Inspection here

NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) Preliminary Report
Preliminary Report: Marine DCA19MM047
Discussion points

• concludes all crew sleeping
• Statement in Preliminary Report says it may contain errors

Anchor Watch

• Captain's responsibilities
  
• Regulations
  
• Anchor watch process discussion
• People from prior trips reported meeting the "watchman" at various times during night

Rough time line as reported

• night dive time? commonly done by passengers; NO night dive by Crew
  
• 2:30 crew member finished up in the galley verified heating elements were out and cold etc. Then went upstairs to bed. Not indicated if this was the designated Anchor Watch see
  
• Between 3 and 3:14, a crew member awoke hearing a bang. He attempted to go down to investigate but stairs already afire.
• 5 crew were in the wheelhouse two levels above the berth area. 1 crew member in the berth below did not survive.
• crew jumped to deck, one broke leg other undisclosed ankle injuries
• Captain first Mayday from Bridge documented 3:14
• crew tried to reach the passengers from aft passage into the salon/galley then via forward front windows
  
• forced from the boat by the fire some swam aft to the dingy & brought it alongside to rescue injured crew
  
• sought help from nearby vessel Grape Escape Another Mayday call.

Most suspected causes of fire discussed

• charging batteries either in the Galley or possibly berth area
• Dept of Fire Protection Engineering, U of Maryland video
  
• electrical fires are often a factor
  
• boat fires DO burn quickly
• electrical wiring faults inside walls can smolder for hours before bursting into flame
• Boat USA Foundation boat fire video

Battery discussions here

Original location of fire not yet established

• former owner believes it started in passenger berth area
• some believe it started in galley/salon area

Conception's layout and facilities

• all electric no propane or other fuel used for cooking
• Nitrox = Nuvair Membrane
• NO banked Oxygen
• all O2 First aid tanks or stage bottles were aft (last to burn)
• Conception Safety Video link
  
• Post fire picture
• News footage raising the Conception

Exits from Dorm

• main exit - stairs to starboard forward end of the dorm to the galley/salon.
• emergency hatch above bunks at aft end of dorm exited in aft portion of the salon, just inside the passageway to the after deck.
• no locked doors to the galley, salon or berth area.

The design of berth area and escape hatches discussed extensively. It meets current USCG standards which many believe may be changed as a result of this tragedy.

Excellent DAN article Mental Health post incident

Google Map link that shows Platt Harbor and the US Coast Guard Station, Channel Islands. Ventura and Santa Barbara are to the north

Related threads

A personal perspective on California Live-aboards
Discussion of legal aspects here
Condolences posted here
Donations here

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[Ron Lee]

Dirty Mac comment: Yes the stand alone alarm minimum requirement for a vessel of this size and stated purpose surprised me as well. I would think that interconnected alarms with battery backup and emergency lighting, with the alarms wired to a central panel in the wheelhouse, with visual and audible alarms would be a welcome improvement.

I am not a fire fighter nor expert on this type system but the above sounds like the basis for fulfill the detection/alerting aspect. It may also require multiple fire/smoke detection sensors of the photoelectric and ionization types. One detects smoldering fires and the other faster burning fires...or something like that. The galley, bunk area and maybe others would have both types and in addition, a backup of each type from another manufacturer. Thus the galley and bunk area would have four smoke detectors each. The backup may not be tied into the main interconnected system.

 

[Texas Torpedo]

How about returning to NiCad batteries when possible; they don’t have the same problems....

I think most electronics today require more power than NiCads can handle, not to mention, NiCad batteries were horrible with "memory" issues = losing capacity, unexpectedly. (You have to 'cycle' them to keep them fresh) NiMH pretty much got rid of the battery memory issues, but they certainly don't have the power of lithium cells. You can factor in weight as well.. Lithium is much lighter when you compare capacity, as well as output.

Would battery powered devices being charged on the boat be safer if they were of the "Ni" chemistry? Absolutely. But, would they be effective for what most divers have / want to use today? No. Strobes, lights, computers, DPV's, phones, laptops, etc. etc. There is no getting around the benefits (power wise) of this battery chemistry.

IMO, the challenge is how to safely charge them. I cited battery bags for r/c batteries earlier in this thread. It's a feel good solution that has proven to help mitigate a lipo that ruptures and turns into a torch. But, I don't think it's that great of a solution for boats. A dedicated containment system for charging would be ideal..

Don't think someone's phone or tablet started this fire in the berthing area, IF it were started by a battery at all. The more I research (outside of this tragedy), the more I am seeing DIY chargers. Scary! No CE or other rating there.

 

[PDX Diver]

My understanding is the galley had a heat detector, and not a smoke detector.

I have not heard word of any smoke detectors in the adjoining salon. I've read there were a least a couple of windows open in the salon. The charging station is on the back wall. If a fire had started here, and the bow was anchored toward the wind as has been indicated is standard practice, the prevailing airflow would direct the smoke and heat out the adjacent double-wide opening toward the stern and out into the open. I could see with this scenario how it could become quite involved before being detected. Just a possibility.

 

[dytis-sm]

Not sure if this was addressed but if I remember correctly there were plugs everywhere around the Galley of the Conception, not just one spot. It was typical to see items being charged on the tables, between the backrest and the seat (there were plugs under the back rests), on top of the coffee stand were the coffee makers stood ( closer to the kitchen counter), and an interesting spot: a little step across from the changing room and at the bottom of the stairs.That particular one was very sought after since it was one of the few below. It was not unusual to see two power strips sitting there full of devices/batteries being charged. The great part of that little ledge/shelf was that it was covered with carpeting!

 

[diverrex]

Just a quick post to comment that I have been on this boat a number of times most recently on an overnight trip in January. I would go on this boat next week if they were running trips. I would expect a number of changes in battery charging procedures and some changes to the fire warning system. I would have no problem if the second exit remained the same. I am much more interested in changes that relate to prevention and would prefer any dollars spent are focused there.

 

[PDX Diver]

Not sure if this was addressed but if I remember correctly there were plugs everywhere around the Galley of the Conception, not just one spot. It was typical to see items being charged on the tables, between the backrest and the seat (there were plugs under the back rests), on top of the coffee stand were the coffee makers stood ( closer to the kitchen counter), and an interesting spot: a little step across from the changing rook and at the bottom of the stairs.That particular one was very sought after since it was one of the few below. It was not unusual to see two power strips sitting there full of devices/batteries being charged. The great part of that little ledge/shelf was that it was covered with carpeting!

This outlet was mentioned earlier, but was only speculation, they couldn't be sure it wasn't another boat. You've provided confirmation.