Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[wgw04024]

This appears to be why so many are speculating that asphyxiation/hypoxia was the cause of death. I hope so.

I do understand this, but still, not one out of 34? If there was one person with stinky feet, someone would of woken up and complained, at least to themselves. :/

 

[CSandE]

I find it strange that not one single passenger downstairs woke up early enough in this tragedy to do something, anything. If this fire started and slowly built up steam until it was a raging inferno, out of 34 people, not one woke up, was already awake, or something like that? My ex could literally wake up if I rolled over in bed sometimes. That part of this puzzle just seems odd to me.

I’m posting this here because I think it needs to be posted again. Watch how long it takes from the first sign of flames until the entire boat is engulfed. This boat is of similar size and construction to the Conception [hint: it’s under 30 seconds]. Now imagine you’ve just done 2 full days of cold water diving. I don’t know about you, but me? I’m exhausted and at 2:30 am, I’m sleeping like a rock. There’s no way in hell I’d wake up, be able to figure out what’s going on and get out in less than 30 seconds - even without smoke, darkness and chaos.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Before aluminum melts, it become so brittle it is unsafe. Alm decks and ladders in a fire are very, very dangerous.

At many 100 degrees C. I’m fairly positive a human wouldn’t be using or around them at those temps

 

[DebbyDiver]

I find it strange that not one single passenger downstairs woke up early enough in this tragedy to do something, anything. If this fire started and slowly built up steam until it was a raging inferno, out of 34 people, not one woke up, was already awake, or something like that? My ex could literally wake up if I rolled over in bed sometimes. That part of this puzzle just seems odd to me.

I do understand this, but still, not one out of 34? If there was one person with stinky feet, someone would of woken up and complained, at least to themselves. :/

But, we don't know if they woke up. I just pray really hard that they did not.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

This appears to be why so many are speculating that asphyxiation/hypoxia was the cause of death. I hope so.

No longer speculation. The statement yesterday from SB Sheriff Brown (who is also the Coroner) states that COD was probable smoke inhalation, and that all the passengers were either unconscious or had already died when the fire reached the bunkroom area.

(For those who want to equivocate, "probable," "likely," "apparent," and other similar terms are often used in these CODs to give a little legal cover and wiggle room down the road should testimony in court be required. Don't look at those words and assume "Well, it could have been something else then." That's the final determination. Once the bodies are released, families are certainly free to have private autopsies conducted, and I'm sure some will, if they think there's more information to be gleaned.)

 

[rjack321]

Question for the firefighters and related experts. Any thoughts on the accuracy of claims made in the "Toxic Hot Seat" documentary (which questioned both the efficacy of the retardants themselves and the relative benefits/risks, given their high toxicity).

The efficacy of the older generation of PBDEs (polybrominated diphenyl ethers) is highly questionable and their widespread adoption in California (which spread worldwide) is nowconsidered to have been on misleading and erroneous testimony.
As a toxicologist I can tell you that these flame retardants have caused widespread sperm count reductions, immune system problems and a whole host of other issues in people and wildlife.
Here's just some on the mountain of literature on the adverse effects of PBDEs.
https://www.nap.edu/read/24758/chapter/6
The TRIS generation flame retardants are also problematic but the literature about that is less complete. Ditto the PFAS compounds. In another 15 or 20 years a fuller understanding of their hazards is likely to develop.

 

[Steelyeyes]

I find it strange that not one single passenger downstairs woke up early enough in this tragedy to do something, anything. If this fire started and slowly built up steam until it was a raging inferno, out of 34 people, not one woke up, was already awake, or something like that? My ex could literally wake up if I rolled over in bed sometimes. That part of this puzzle just seems odd to me.

The fire the next deck up could very well have consumed enough O2 from the berthing area that people just weren't going to wake up. I had a bit of confined space training in a previous job and 6 years of damage control, including atmosphere testing, training on submarines. Low O2 can put you out as fast as any anesthesiologist can. If you're already asleep you just don't wake up.

I texted my friend about the forensic testing for smoke inhalation, etc. She broke her foot loading a golf cart when they were packing up to leave Burning Man and is going to need surgery. She wasn't in the mood to talk shop. It's safe to say they have a pretty good testing regimen that's pretty conclusive.

 

[DanBMW]

No longer speculation. The statement yesterday from SB Sheriff Brown (who is also the Coroner) states that COD was probable smoke inhalation, and that all the passengers were either unconscious or had already died when the fire reached the bunkroom area.

(For those who want to equivocate, "probable," "likely," "apparent," and other similar terms are often used in these CODs to give a little legal cover and wiggle room down the road should testimony in court be required. Don't look at those words and assume "Well, it could have been something else then." That's the final determination. Once the bodies are released, families are certainly free to have private autopsies conducted, and I'm sure some will, if they think there's more information to be gleaned.)

Then why didn't the alarms go off ?

 

[Paco II]

One of my memories of my trip on the Conception was how well I slept. Remember, it's cool water diving, you're doing 4 maybe even 5 dives in a day. Wake and repeat. I was passed out when I was sleeping. This isn't an answer to your question, but more just a comment to it.

I find it strange that not one single passenger downstairs woke up early enough in this tragedy to do something, anything. If this fire started and slowly built up steam until it was a raging inferno, out of 34 people, not one woke up, was already awake, or something like that? My ex could literally wake up if I rolled over in bed sometimes. That part of this puzzle just seems odd to me.

 

[scubafanatic]

My thoughts are with the families, crew, rescuers, and investigators. Heart breaking.

As the industry works to identify and implement safety enhancements, we as individual divers need to consider what we can do differently today.

Assuming batteries were a direct cause (speculation) how many of us are willing to leave our phones, computers, video/camera, and other equipment batteries on shore?

What individual limits and sacrifices are we willing to commit to in order to contribute to a safer experience for all?

We can’t leave it entirely up to the boat owners/operators, regulators, and inspectors. We can each contribute meaningfully to the solution.

I'd suggest dive boats disable/rip out all cabin plug in electrical sockets to remove the possibility of folks doing stealth battery recharging 'off the books' in their cabins, in violation of boat safety policy.

Although not politically correct, it's very possible the mass fire fatality was caused by secret/'illegal' in cabin/bunk battery charging.

In the same vein, I refuse to ever live in an apartment complex because I live in fear of what idiocy the twits next door are doing that would burn ME down! (just 2 weekends ago the Kroger's where I shop had a HUGE apartment complex fire breakout in mid-afternoon right behind their store!)