Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[cerich]

FOLKS-

Just a thought.. the egress hatches obviously are now something that we are all thinking about, and their suitability.

We need to keep in mind that these hatches are approved by the applicable regulations, and to a degree, many if not most owners and masters will feel that the regulations were thought out by experts and being in compliance is "all good".

I'm guilty of trying to cover all bases and possibilities, aka speculation, to come to grips with accidents, and certainly this one that is horrific.

I feel like the discussion of what makes sense is healthy to a degree. However, talking about redesign and hind site solutions to the Conception, well not so much. That is just MY opinion. A new thread discussing passenger safety, things that passengers can do to be more boat aware and safe, with more generalized stuff would be awesome.

Let's wait a bit to see what the investigation finds and then what changes to her specific design would have made a difference(if any) before we literally re arrange the furniture.

 

[CT-Rich]

The source of ignition is going to only be part of what needs to be addressed.
Why did the fire go unnoticed as long as it did?
Why did it spread as quickly as it did?
What factors contributed to the mass casualties?
Other boats have burned to the waterline without this many fatalities, what made this one special? Looking at everything so far, the hatches, and potential escape routes are going to figure large in the report.

As for a criminal investigation, with this many fatalities, how could there not be a criminal investigation?

 

[cerich]

Other boats have burned to the waterline without this many fatalities, what made this one special?

3am and tired people sleeping

 

[Wookie]

From your description, sounds like you want the exit to to span from one bunk corridor to the other. This would put a hole across basically the ENTIRE exit path from the solon. We're not talking broken legs, we're talking about everyone that comes up the staircase falling back down into the bunk area in low visibilty.

I would humbly suggest that those that do not have first hand experience with the Conception or Vision refrain from suggesting design changes based on pictures and incomplete knowlegde of the layout of the boat. I do not mean this as an insult! It's just if you don't have a good 3D image of how everything fits together, you're likely to miss key points, like putting a gaping hole in the middle of an exit route.

Roak

No, I'm suggesting spanning the passageway between 10U and 27U, just as I stated, and using the ladders that get you in 10U and 27U to go up through the hatch, as I stated.

As I had on my boat.

No one crawled in a bunk to get out aside from crew.

 

[BlueTrin]

Frank, I'm not stupid enough to argue with you about boat design. But I will tell you that I personally find it hard to enter ANY top bunk (including those that were on the Spree) just to go to sleep when the room is fully lit, filled with breathable air and not on fire. There is a huge difference in ease of egress (especially for those of us with a lot of bioprene) between a ladder with handrails leading directly to an overhead hatch, and a ladder on the outside of a three tiered bunk bed where you have to get into the top bunk and then turn around to pass through the hatch (possibly wearing a PFD).

So again, not saying anything about redesigning the hatch itself. I'm just saying that it would be a lot easier to access if there wasn't a bunk bed directly below it.

There are obviously a lot of places to break the accident chain. Not every disaster is the same. Maybe everyone was dead in their bunks from smoke inhalation and never awoke. Maybe they were awake but the emergency exit was just as blocked by fire as the main exit. But just because we can think of scenarios where better emergency hatch access wouldn't have helped, that doesn't mean that it's not an important consideration, to at least think about it in doing our post-tragedy analysis.

As I mentioned, it either is or isn't important to have good access to an emergency escape hatch. Ad if it is, sticking bunk beds underneath it doesn't seem to be moving in the right direction.

One way to approach this from a regulatory perspective is to decide on how much time people should be able to escape, then you just put plenty of people inside and time how much they take to get out in a scenario.

Time would probably be a function of the size of the boat and scenario could include a person having to wake up every other person ? Or simulate an alarm going off.

 

[DanBMW]

Under perfect conditions, starting in their bunks, I don't think that all ~33 people could get out through this escape hatch in under 3-4 minutes, . Add to the situation, some might have been overweight and out of shape and others might not have the strength to pull themselves out by themselves and you get some would not get out period, without assistance.

 

[Wookie]

One way to approach this from a regulatory perspective is to decide on how much time people should be able to escape, then you just put plenty of people inside and time how much they take to get out in a scenario.

Time would probably be a function of the size of the boat and scenario could include a person having to wake up every other person ? Or simulate an alarm going off.

Now you're talking about General Quarters or battle stations drills.

It is my belief that clients won't stand to be woken at 3 AM to muster for a lifejacket drill. When we held one at 10:30 AM, when they had to get up for the next dive anyway, there was still plenty of grumbling and swearing, and then they went downstairs, had a snack, and got in their wetsuits.

IJS

 

[BlueTrin]

Now you're talking about General Quarters or battle stations drills.

It is my belief that clients won't stand to be woken at 3 AM to muster for a lifejacket drill. When we held one at 10:30 AM, when they had to get up for the next dive anyway, there was still plenty of grumbling and swearing, and then they went downstairs, had a snack, and got in their wetsuits.

IJS

Oh I didn’t mean that customers would have to do it. I meant to say that maybe the owner of the boat would have the obligation to either run a practice drill every year or maybe the regulators would take a boat and use such a drill to determine the new rules.

 

[Larryjd1]

I am someone that actually slept in the emergency access bunk 10U on my first trip on the Vision (same layout.)

I actually exited out of the emergency opening the first morning and it was not graceful or quick by myself with daylight coming through the hatch.

I wrote about it way earlier in this thread if you want to read more about it Fire on dive boat Conception in CA (I am repeating this since people seem to be jumping in at the end.)

I will also add these following comments:

1) While the drawings make it look like there is room between the middle and back wall bunks, there is not. They are up against each other at a right angle. But you could achieve that access from both sides, and provide the ladder by removing those 6 middle bunks.

2) On my trips they were also private charter and never more than 32ish people on more, just to give everyone more overall room. I didn't arrange the charter, but assume that it was still profitable for the boat and we were only paying like $600. (As a private charter there was no markup to the divers.)

3) There was not a "ladder" type thing to make climbing up or down easy. I had to use the edges of the bunk below to get up or down. Not easy even in calm, well lit conditions. A direct ladder, even if just a single since that is the width of the current exit hatch, would be preferable.)

4) People were encouraged to bring sleeping bags to put on top of the provided mattress, blanket and pillow. I also brought my own pillow plus the bunks were long enough that could use the end to store clothes, etc. So if someone was charging in their bunk and maybe it overheated under a blanket or whatever, there was plenty of items to fuel it.

 

[KevinNM]

I am someone that actually slept in the emergency access bunk 10U on my first trip on the Vision (same layout.)

Do you remember if there was a smoke detector in the berthing compartment?