Finally got in the water again and looking for advice. (Update from Previous Post)

[jtsfour]

The amount of room available. For me fitting more than one bottle to a side is hard as even for the first bottle you are squeezing a bottle. I store one bottle per side and juggle them as I use them.

Is it difficult enough I should be somewhat practiced in it before taking AN/DP? Or is it something that I should learn at the same time as AN/DP?

 

[Marie13]

Is it difficult enough I should be somewhat practiced in it before taking AN/DP? Or is it something that I should learn at the same time as AN/DP?

My instructor advised getting some practice beforehand was a good idea. Especially with dropping and picking the bottle up.

 

[stretchthepenn]

What does technical sidemount cover? Isn’t how to sling and trim deco bottles typically part of AN/DP?

As @Marie13 wrote, AN/DP would cover how to manage deco bottles in DIR(-ish) format, but not how to deal with Tec SM deco bottles.

The list of unique elements in Technical SM is kinda short--setting up the bottom clips, setting up the top clips, moving bottles--but it's a deceptively short list.

Re: bottom clips, you've gotta do a different clamp-and-leash system that requires a lot of adjustments to clamp height, leash length, and tank rotation. There are lots of interacting variables, and it's challenging to get right.

Re: top clips, the standard leashes around the tank/valve neck are no longer adequate. You've got to rig and use a bungee-and-quick-links system to clip in up top and attach your second stages. It's a good setup, but learning to rig it and orient the multiple elements correctly can be a pain.

Re: moving bottles, you're going to put your deco tanks atop your main tanks (or below; there's a way to do that, too, but I don't recall quite how it goes). Putting them there in a pool session isn't hard, but doing so in open water while wearing a drysuit with bulky undergarments and limited range of motion, plus carrying a full load of tec gear and managing both a canister light cord and a large light on the back of your hand? And while still figuring out the clamp-and-leash system? That can be a special kind of suck.

And, just for fun, add onto all that the mechanics of doing a gas switch while juggling at least three active second stages. Four, if you're talking gas switches between the first and second deco bottles.

Is it difficult enough I should be somewhat practiced in it before taking AN/DP? Or is it something that I should learn at the same time as AN/DP?

I'd definitely practice your Tec SM skills before trying them in AN/DP.

 

[J-Vo]

+1 for learning tech sidemount skills before AN/DP. Check out sidemounting.com | Online video training courses for Scuba Divers. At the least it will give you an idea what your up against.

Do your deco classes in open water, and learn to handle your deco/stage bottles there. Cave deco is too easy and won't teach you how to open water deco. Sitting on a rock for an hour is way different then holding open water stops.

 

[Marie13]

As @Marie13 wrote, AN/DP would cover how to manage deco bottles in DIR(-ish) format, but not how to deal with Tec SM deco bottles.

The list of unique elements in Technical SM is kinda short--setting up the bottom clips, setting up the top clips, moving bottles--but it's a deceptively short list.

Re: bottom clips, you've gotta do a different clamp-and-leash system that requires a lot of adjustments to clamp height, leash length, and tank rotation. There are lots of interacting variables, and it's challenging to get right.

Re: top clips, the standard leashes around the tank/valve neck are no longer adequate. You've got to rig and use a bungee-and-quick-links system to clip in up top and attach your second stages. It's a good setup, but learning to rig it and orient the multiple elements correctly can be a pain.

Re: moving bottles, you're going to put your deco tanks atop your main tanks (or below; there's a way to do that, too, but I don't recall quite how it goes). Putting them there in a pool session isn't hard, but doing so in open water while wearing a drysuit with bulky undergarments and limited range of motion, plus carrying a full load of tec gear and managing both a canister light cord and a large light on the back of your hand? And while still figuring out the clamp-and-leash system? That can be a special kind of suck.

And, just for fun, add onto all that the mechanics of doing a gas switch while juggling at least three active second stages. Four, if you're talking gas switches between the first and second deco bottles.

I'd definitely practice your Tec SM skills before trying them in AN/DP.

Don’t forget adding dry gloves to the mix! It’s actually more common practice to put deco bottles on the bottom. Much easier to verify contents that way. They get clipped to a D ring on your waist belt. As I found out Saturday, a regular movable D ring wasn’t a good idea. It ended up mashed against my body and there was no way I could unclip. Ran into a cave classmate at the quarry who showed me the Dive Rite drop D rings he uses. Ordered those from DGX and I’ll have them for this weekend. Also switching bottom leash to bungee.

There are tons of little variables. Some of it is very individual to the diver. I use the XL bolt snaps as I dive cold water with the Fourth Element G1 neoprene liners under my dry gloves. I can get a dry gloved finger through the ring.

 

[Marie13]

In my experience, finding cavern dive buddies is fairly difficult, but not impossible. I think the easiest (or all the hard ways) method to get experience at incremental levels of "tech" diving is to find a dive buddy with similar goals that you can grow with. Try to develop a community of dive buddies and see who might be interested in going down this path with you. It'll make it more enjoyable for you both/all of you I believe.

You’d be surprised what you find in dive buddies. I had three dive days over the winter out at the mine after cavern/intro. A very experienced CCR diver was more than happy to dive with me so I could build experience. Buddy didn’t care I was limited to 1/6 and dives weren’t going to be very long. I lucked into a group of very kind people. Few egos.

 

[jtsfour]

+1 for learning tech sidemount skills before AN/DP. Check out sidemounting.com | Online video training courses for Scuba Divers. At the least it will give you an idea what your up against.

Do your deco classes in open water, and learn to handle your deco/stage bottles there. Cave deco is too easy and won't teach you how to open water deco. Sitting on a rock for an hour is way different then holding open water stops.

Thanks for that source it seems like it could be useful.

Does anyone else have any experience with that website?

 

[stretchthepenn]

Don’t forget adding dry gloves to the mix! It’s actually more common practice to put deco bottles on the bottom. Much easier to verify contents that way.

True, dat, on the dryglove thing. The lack of both dexterity and sensitivity becomes a big deal, especially when you're working blind.

Dunno about deco-on-bottom being more common, though. I'm in the Atlanta area, and my instructor is a big proponent of deco-on-top. The preference may be a regional thing, or maybe it's just instructor-based.

They get clipped to a D ring on your waist belt. As I found out Saturday, a regular movable D ring wasn’t a good idea. It ended up mashed against my body and there was no way I could unclip. Ran into a cave classmate at the quarry who showed me the Dive Rite drop D rings he uses. Ordered those from DGX and I’ll have them for this weekend. Also switching bottom leash to bungee.

Interesting... I've got welded D-rings that I could use, but drop-D rings may be better, and my instructor specifically advises against bungee on the bottom leash. Again, I dunno as there's a definite right/wrong answer; I suspect regional and instructor preferences.

 

[Marie13]

@stretchthepenn

My instructor hasn’t indicated a preference either way. She’s mostly into doing what works for an individual.

 

[grantctobin]

Dunno about deco-on-bottom being more common, though. I'm in the Atlanta area, and my instructor is a big proponent of deco-on-top. The preference may be a regional thing, or maybe it's just instructor-based.

While a strong proponent of bottom mounting both stages and deco bottles, there are clean ways to top mount stage bottles. It is not possible to verify contents in a top-mounted deco bottle and is broadly considered poor form. I actually can't think of anyone that teaches top mounting deco bottles, especially among active members of the cave community.