filthy cruise ship thread (resurrected)

[archman]

Hmmm... it took you less than ten minutes to get through all this, formulate a reply, and write it up. I wouldn't call that an objective response by any reasonable means.

Did you actually read the Canadian report, or are you content to dismiss it due to previous bias? Please argue something substantial, rather than opinion-based. Like a gray water nutrient level, for instance. THAT I can't seem to find, and it's bugging me.

*new edit*
Since Boogie brought it up, here's a link to the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives. I didn't think it was a leftist nut movement, but I'll let you decide. Maybe it is.
http://www.policyalternatives.ca/

 

[Natasha]

archman:
I really don't want to be dragged into a debate here. But, there is so much misinformation in your posts that it's hard for me not to speak up.

I really don't have the time or energy to go through each one with you.

I will say this in closing. Yes, the cruise lines were negligent in the past. One of the ships you brought up, the Regal Empress, was built in 1953. They have come a long way since then.
Several lines have been fined and are cleaning up their acts. This takes time.
I'll pray they can get it done soon, so we can end this thread.

 

[archman]

It doesn't matter (much!) to me if I'm right or wrong, and I've been wrong before. I didn't think I WAS wrong this time, but it's possible. Hopefully some better data will be forthcoming. I encourage people to send their own if they have it... hopefully condensed.

 

[cyklon_300]

of the cruise industry is a legitimate topic that doesn't need to be 'ended.'

Educated consumers can help bring more rapid change to the operating practices of big businesses, especially those with direct impacts to natural resources that divers should care about.

 

[Natasha]

of the cruise industry is a legitimate topic that doesn't need to be 'ended.'

Educated consumers can help bring more rapid change to the operating practices of big businesses, especially those with direct impacts to natural resources that divers should care about.

Cyklon:
It's an old topic that has been debated at least the 15 years that I have been in the travel industry.

The thing is the cruise industry has heard all of these complaints, and have indeed been fined many times over the years. No debate there.

The other side is they have spent millions and millions of dollars to clean their act up. This takes time. Trust me it is an on going process, that will continue, or so many of us would not be working on cruise ships, or selling cruises.

It's almost an insult to me, to have anyone condemn something I vacation on, and sell. It seems like a personal attack to think anyone thinks so low of me that I would have anything to do with the cruise industry if they were indeed still building ships that were not environmentally more friendly. I could not have a clear conscience about this, if I didn't believe that this is a problem they are trying to resolve.

 

[Boogie711]

Hmmm... it took you less than ten minutes to get through all this, formulate a reply, and write it up.

Actually, no, it didn't. I own a Public Affairs consulting firm, specializing in debunking the myths that activist groups spread every day. Type in "junk science" in Yahoo - my company is the first one that comes up.

The CCPA has been on my monitoring list for some time. Certainly, they're one of the more reasonable groups out there, but to claim them as an unbiased would be patently wrong. Especially when their appeal for funds is on the front page of their home page.

Maybe for your next topic, you'd like to attack the aquaculture industry? I have a research paper on the affect activist groups have on aquaculture that's due to be published soon.

 

[archman]

I THINK I found your site... is it http://www.junkscience.com/

It's actually quite nice, and I have bookmarked it for further study. Could you please find me any cruise ship related links, or references to the pertinent NGO's? I tried hunting around, but it's a VERY BIG SITE.

It's not that I don't believe you, but I get suspicious when I get hollered at without the rationale being properly backed up. Some other folks on the board are trying to get some data of their own to post on this topic, as all I have are these biased reports from NGO's, and biased reports from the cruise line industry. CCPA wrote a very balanced report in my analysis, but there's an adage statisticians use... "garbage in, garbage out." If the data is faulty, then the report loses credibility.

** distracting unrelated remark **
Hee hee, now as for aquaculture, I have my own data and academia to beat that industry over the head with. I haven't a clue what the environmental groups are saying about it, but most of the industry gets a "needs a whole lot of water quality fixxer-upping" in my analysis. Eutrophication is one of my forte's. You need it in my field. What ARE the environmental groups saying, incidentally? (you can PM me)

 

[JeffG]

I THINK I found your site... is it http://www.junkscience.com/

I doubt it. My guess would be http://www.checkmatepublicaffairs.com

 

[Boogie711]

Jeff is correct. Although you're correct - Steven Milloy's Junk Science page is a great resource. I'd be happy to connect you with some others of interest. May I suggest, for starters, www.activistcash.com?

 

[bermudaskink]

Maybe for your next topic, you'd like to attack the aquaculture industry? I have a research paper on the affect activist groups have on aquaculture that's due to be published soon.

I am so annoyed the old cruise ship post got deleted. I pinned up some really great stats and info. Oh well. There's some more info to be found on the Ocean Conservancy website http://www.oceanconservancy.org/dynamic/home/home.htm - see links on homepage.

But on the aqua culture tangent. Boogie. My PhD supervisor (who is the head of the department of Zoology and animal ecololgy at the University of Cork in Ireland and the Director of Ireland's Environment Research Institute), is currently writing a book on the environmental impacts of aquaculture. He has published hundreds of scientific papers in top biological journals, is by no means an activist however, is adamant that many forms of aquaculture, especially shrimp and salmon farms are having severe deterimental impacts on the marine environment and are currently being operated unsustainably. I would be very interested to read your paper. Please can you forward me a digital copy. I can PM you my address.

Natasha... it is sometimes hard to accept that something you spend your job doing, and buying into is actually not as sound as you thought it was. Cruise ship companies love to flush away their bad reputation with their own environmental propaganda. I think that the real situation, is somewhere between the extreme activist hype against cruise ships and the "we've cleaned up our act" smoke screen that the cruise ships put out. If the cruise ship lines you deal with are better than the others, and you know for sure what their environmental efforts include and are fine with that, then that is very cool.