filthy cruise ship thread (resurrected)

[H2Andy]

i don't know, boogie... it would seem that going after pollution, no matter where it is,
would be a good thing.

some people go after the cruise ships, some go after the downtown urban polluters...

as i see it, archman is trying to call attention to one aspect of the pollution problem, and you to another. both are part of the same problem.

and no, i am not missing your skepticism as to the motives of those going after cruise ships. but the same can be said of anyone who puts forth an environmentalist agenda
(why worry about the urban harbors when the ozone layer is such a bigger problem?)

btw, i have enjoyed reading this thread.

 

[archman]

Isn't it a shame that activists get everyone worked up about cruise ships? I mean, sure, they're a problem, but isn't going after the cruise ship industry akin to arresting someone for jaywalking just as a robbery is happening across the street?

Hmmm... I don't like to critique folks who attempt to better environmental policy, regardless of where they do it. But with the jaywalking analogy, you're assuming that the person committing the lesser crime is arrested. With environmental policy, making any "arrests" (regulations) is dicey at best, and it's nigh impossible to make a "big bust" (pass big sweeping legislation). In many ways it's like the KISS analogy, Keep It Simple Stupid.

But no, it's far easier to arrest jaywalkers (read - attack the rich and corporate culture) than it is to go after the bigger offenders. It's awfully hard to fundraise complaining about the sewage in the midst of a downtown urban harbor - people EXPECT it to be dirty.

It's not that it's easier to "arrest jaywalkers", it's more that they have the best chance of being "arrested" at all. You'll note that despite the miniature litigating frenzy going on in the Pacific Northwest, it's still slow going getting much regulation passed. And as for the Caribbean, well that's near nonexistent.

A lot of people (inlcuding me) do not view targetting of cruise ships as an assault on "rich and corporate culture". Rather, they're targetted 'cuz they're a large source of environmental damage that can be "fixed" with relatively little political effort. They're self-contained, mobile, and a luxury item. The fact that the "activists" still have to fight tooth and nail only reinforces how difficult even the SIMPLEST environmental management efforts are thwarted.

I've participated in a lot of environmental policy hearings and meetings, and the sad fact is that you won't likely get anywhere unless you tackle the simple and/or popular stuff first. That means coral reefs, fuzzy endangered species, and habitats with significant stakeholder interest (i.e. Puget Sound, San Francisco Bay, Galapagos Islands).

 

[6Gill]

Yeah Boogie, I deleted that statement. It was rude of me.
Now on to the junk science debunking!

Don't confuse cruise ship embarkation ports like Halifax or Vancouver with cruise ship disembarkment destinations. It is in fact a common mistake.

Embarkation ports DO have water quality issues as you have rightly said, and there ARE primarily municipal in origin. Most of these cities do have considerable regulation in place, even if it isn't enforced. But that's a different issue.

Now recall that cruise ships do not linger at large cities typically, but visit small exotic islands or coastal villages. The ships now are the dominant contributor to poor water quality, among other detriments.

Degrading water quality bears direct relation to human population pressure. So yeah, Houston Texas will have a bigger water quality problem than Bermuda. But nobody really dives in Houston, nor is it touted as a scenic destination.

And if you pay attention to politics and environmental law, you'll note that large, wide-sweeping regulations are very rarely passed in legislatures. You have to start small and work your way up from there. Or get nothing passed. In this realistic context, it is far more prudent for marine stewards to lobby against cruise ships, if for the simple reason that it WORKS.

As a Caribbean scuba diver, the last thing I want to see is dead reefs. But that's what you get if tourism is not properly managed (i.e. Jamaica). And cruise ships tend to be least managed and most damaging aspect of this industry. Not a good combination.

The fact is that you deleted a lot of radical stuff from your previous statement that you wrote and deleted. In fact, it was totaly re-written. I tend to place all those radical envioronmental quasi-terrorist organzations like "Green Peace" and others that you mention in the same bag of garbage. You may not call your self a "tree hugger" but you sure seem to have the mentality. As with most radical environment junkies, you avoid the issues that challnge your issues and shift and jive to suit your purpose. After reading your profile, I wonder if you really ever have worked for a living. It sort of sounds like you are one of those proffessional students who has never had to support a family, buy a house pay taxes and fight the Counties wars, like most of the rest of us. Perhaps, you should try living and working for a living in the real world. Take off those rose colored glasses, you just might see things a little differently. I really think Boggie
is doing a great job with his exchange with you. Go Boggie!!

 

[CuriousMe]

<snip>

Cruise ships (or more accurately, too MANY cruise ships) are one of the worst threats to Caribbean reefs. <snip>[/COLOR]

I'm not a scientist, or an environmental expert.....and I'm really not looking to debate the issue. I do live on a cruise ship though....I read through a bunch of the links you provided....and they don't resemble the environment I live in very much.

I'll say the bad first....the Company I work for is on parole right now with the US Federal Govt. The incident that caused this is two engineers on one of the ships released water into the ocean....the oily water separater they use allowed one to many parts per million of oil verses water into the ocean. This was not intentional....it was a maintenance problem on the unit involved. Yes it was wrong, yes they got caught, the individuals involved got fired and fined, the company got big time fined. That being said....our company has all sorts of programs to stop this kind of thing from happening again and they perform bi-annual internally and externally led audits to make sure the programs are being adhered to. Not adhering to them is cause for immediate dismissal. In fact, two new bridge officer's were fired last month for not following those programs.

The line has no dry cleaners onboard, the photo processing is done onboard....they harvest out the silver produced as a by-product and then barrel up the rest and put it off in Miami....none of it goes into our water system (it's not connected to the ships plumbing system).

I'm trying to think of the other area's talked about...oh yeah....we treat all black water onboard (sewage) to the point that it's biologically pure (we treat it biologically, not with bleaches and such)....we then use it for cooling water, etc...and then yes I think we dump it out afterward.

I think that all food waste is ground up and disposed at sea....but everything is separated (ie butter pat wrappers, straws, etc) out before hand. All the garbage is separated on the ships....I have a hard time when I go on land....because there's just two garbage choices (recycling and not)...that's very weird to me <smile> I think we have like 8 different color waste bins to make a choice between. We have an enormous amount of recycling that goes off each voyage....it's compacted into huge cubes or put into these huge boxes....depending on what it is.

They have posted a 1-800, 24 hour environmental, hotline....that is posted all over the ship and gives callers the opportunity to be completely anonymous if they want to report some kind of infraction and all the crew know what the infractions are....beacause as part of the training done for each and every crew member onboard....they go through training on all the environmental programs.

Now, I'm not naieve....I don't for a minute think Cruise Ships are all good for the places they go....but I think damage is more social and economic...the other reality is....lets face it....they don't exactly storm the beaches....Most of these destinations compete to get ships to stop there...not just apply to the Cruise companies, but actually compete. And lets face it, I think the cruise ships (at least the ones I've been on) handle waste from people a whole lot more enviro friendly than most of the places they visit.

The way I look at it is that a lot of people want to go to the Caribbean, a lot of people in the Caribbean want folks to come and see them. It's pretty darn paternalistic, and condescending for me to tell the Island Governments that I know better than them and they shouldn't want all these folks coming to them all the time and that they shouldn't be making changes in their society to accommodate them.

Yes the Cruise Companies should we constantly working toward leaving as little as a footprint as possible...I think folks need to look at it realistically as well though....I think the cruise industry is here to stay....there's increasing demand to cruise and no shortage of islands who want the ships to visit.

Well, that was just my .02....go ahead and tear it all apart :slick:

Peace,
Cathie

 

[Natasha]

This is in three parts..

Air Quality

In addition to protecting the oceans, Princess' environmental commitment extends to protecting air quality as well. As we incinerate much of the combustible waste material onboard, the incinerators are equipped with sensors that continuously monitor the incinerator stack. Other measures incorporated to further reduce funnel emissions include purchasing fuel with a lower sulfur content than is required by international standards and training our staff in operating procedures that minimize smoke emissions while maneuvering. Closed circuit TV cameras are installed on deck so that smoke emissions, if they do occur, can be instantly detected, allowing staff to provide an immediate response. Princess has also undertaken steps to protect the Ozone layer by reducing CFC losses. Air conditioning units aboard the ships have been converted to use a non-CFC refrigerant.

Oil Pollution Prevention

Oil spill prevention is another environmental concern for which Princess has prepared. Shipboard and shoreside emergency response plans are operational 24 hours a day. The discharge of oily water from the ship's machinery spaces is governed by strict international regulations which require such water to be either retained on board or discharged through an oily water separator. Since all ships accumulate water in the machinery space bilge, we have taken steps to eliminate any inadvertent release of oil into the marine environment. These include reducing the amount of water in the bilge to the lowest practical level, providing adequate holding tank capacity for the bilge water and a means to discharge it ashore, eliminating oil leaking from machinery so far as is practically possible, replacing equipment with state-of-the-art separators, and continuing to audit compliance with the regulations and make improvements as a result.

In the unlikely event that an oil spill should occur, Princess has a comprehensive emergency response plan in place to help control and clean up small oil spills.

Auditing and Inspections

An ongoing auditing program of the ship's operating procedures and its equipment is used to identify areas where further environmental enhancements can be made. In addition to the mandatory "outside" inspections by the U.S. Coast Guard, U.S. Public Health Service, classification societies and flag states, every Princess cruise ship is audited by a team of experienced senior ship management, usually a Captain and Chief Technical Officer and one or more specialist officers for safety and environmental protection. This auditing function reports regularly to Princess' shoreside senior management team to ensure that we are always kept fully informed of "front line" shipboard concerns or issues.

 

[Natasha]

Commitment to the Environment


Princess makes its living on the oceans, and therefore we are committed to environmental practices which set a high standard for excellence and responsibility, and will help preserve the marine environment in which we operate. We named our environmental program "Planet Princess," and it has been called the most comprehensive program of environmental policies and practices ever developed by a cruise line.

We work closely with the regulatory and enforcement organizations that govern the cruise industry's environmental practices to ensure that our policies meet the stringent environmental regulations set forth by the International Maritime Organization (IMO), and which are overseen by the U.S. Coast Guard who enforces both international and U.S. environmental laws. We are proud that in most cases our program goes far beyond what is required by law, yet we are continuously striving to identify ways we can raise the level of our environmental standards even further.

Our environmental program is successful because Princess defines clear environmental goals and policies, we have established strict lines of responsibility and accountability within our company for adhering to these guidelines, and we provide our shipboard staff with the equipment, expertise and training to achieve our environmental standards. The highlights of our program are:


Even though disposal of many types of solid waste into the ocean is permitted by law, Princess has a zero dumping policy prohibiting the disposal of unprocessed non-biodegradable solid waste into the ocean. All solid waste is either incinerated on board ship, or landed ashore.

Princess has invested millions of dollars to equip its ships with state-of-the-art environmental technology and waste management equipment in order to process the waste that is generated during a cruise.

One of the keys to a successful waste management program is to minimize the amount of waste generated in the first place, and to recycle where possible. To minimize plastics, one of the most harmful substances to the marine environment, Princess has worked closely with suppliers to replace plastic packaging with other biodegradable materials or eliminate or reduce packaging materials. These efforts have resulted in a reduction of plastic waste by approximately one third, or seven million pieces each year.

Princess was the first cruise line to appoint an environmental expert to a full-time senior management position. Our environmental health program, established in 1993, is designed to actively monitor our sea and land based environmental policies and practices.

A company's environmental policy can only be successful if the people implementing it are well trained and motivated. That's why we have comprehensive education and training programs in place for all crew members, to ensure that there are no inadvertent violations of our environmental policies, and to heighten sensitivities to environmental issues. There are also strict disciplinary procedures that apply to any violations.

Whether it's photo developing chemicals, dry cleaning materials or medical waste, all toxic or hazardous waste is carefully handled and stored for landing ashore into approved disposal facilities.
As a result of these and other efforts, we are extremely proud that Planet Princess has been lauded as the cruise industry's environmental standard, and that the program has earned the U.S. Coast Guard's prestigious William M. Benkert Award for excellence in marine environmental protection. It has also received the ASTA/Smithsonian Magazine Environment Award, the Green Leaf Gold Award from the Pacific Asia Tourist Association, and the Tourism for Tomorrow Award from British Airways. Princess' environmental efforts have further been recognized as an industry standard by leading environmental watchdogs such as the Center for Marine Conservation, the Florida Consumer Action Network, the National Research Council's Naval Studies Board and the National Academy of Sciences.

Further information on our Planet Princess environmental protection program is detailed below:

State-of-the-art Technology

A successful environmental protection program begins with the necessary equipment in place to efficiently manage waste. Over the past decade Princess has invested millions of dollars to equip its ships with state-of-the-art waste management and garbage disposal technology including, for example, incinerators, compactors, shredders and food processors. Not only have we built, and are currently building, all our new ships to high environmental standards, but we have also retro-fitted existing ships with such equipment as well. We consider this substantial investment well spent as we consider the future of our company, our industry, and the health of the marine environment for future generations.

Crew Education and Training

Having the best environmental equipment is only the first part of an effective waste management program. The ship's crew play a key role in the program's success and Princess shipboard employees are trained not only on equipment use, but also to be environmentally sensitive. Using our own in-house instructors, Princess conducts regular environmental training for employees, who are also well aware of the strict disciplinary procedures that apply to any violations of our policy.

Zero Dumping Policy

Under the environmental laws developed by the IMO in conjunction with the U.S. and other maritime nations, standards set forth in the International Convention for the Prevention of Pollution from Ships (MARPOL) allow ships to dispose of waste into the ocean depending upon the waste material and how far the ship is from shore. However, Princess operates in excess of the applicable laws, and does not dump unprocessed non-biodegradable solid waste into the ocean. All non-biodegradable garbage is either incinerated on board, or landed ashore.

Solid Waste Management

Princess has taken many steps to reduce the amount of solid waste generated on board, which is an important part of a responsible marine environment protection program. On all ships the non-biodegradable material including metals, glass and plastics is recycled ashore and all hazardous waste is landed ashore. Biodegradable solid waste such as food is processed on board the ship using pulpers, grinders and dehydrators to turn this food waste into either environmentally-friendly fish food, or it is burned in the incinerators on board. Our comprehensive waste sorting and segregation policies have reduced the volume of material going into the food waste system, and reduced the risk of accidental introduction of paper, metal or plastic objects. Large refrigerated waste storerooms have been added on the larger ships and space has been reallocated on the smaller ships, allowing extended cruise times in inland waters without discharge of any food waste.

 

[Natasha]

Plastic Minimization

Because plastic is one of the most harmful substances to the marine environment, Princess strictly adheres to the laws which prohibit the disposal of plastic materials at sea. Princess has revised its food purchasing and packaging requirements to cut down on the number of plastic items that are brought on board a ship, such as dairy creamer containers, butter pat wrappers and stir sticks. Plastic has been replaced by other biodegradable materials or eliminated altogether as much as possible. For example, laundry bag covers have been switched from plastic to paper that can be either recycled or safely incinerated. Likewise, we made changes in shampoo and other bathroom amenity bottles from plastic to paper-based combustible containers. As a result of these and other efforts, we have reduced the amount of plastic materials brought on board by one third.

Sorting and Separating Procedures

A key part of our recycling and waste management program is the proper sorting and separation of garbage that is generated on board ship. We start by separating at source in passenger areas with our recycling bins for glass, aluminum, paper products and the like, and this continues below deck where staff who are specially trained in these procedures ensure that waste items are properly recycled, incinerated, or stored for landing ashore into an approved garbage reception facility.

Recycling Program

Princess has an extensive solid waste recycling program for our entire fleet. Recyclable materials such as aluminum, glass and tin cans are processed through the ship's equipment, packaged and stored for landing ashore and then off-loaded when the ship reaches a port that accepts the recycled materials. Not only is recycling a part of the ships' day-to-day operating procedures, but passengers are also encouraged to assist in the effort by using special recycling bins located around the ships.

Hazardous Waste Management

The proper disposal of hazardous waste is of the utmost importance to Princess. Our comprehensive hazardous waste policies and training programs have been designed to carefully handle, segregate, label and off load such waste products from the Princess ships into locally approved reception facilities. For example, batteries are collected from passengers at the photo shops. Similarly, used solvents, paints, medical waste, photo developing and dry cleaning materials are also labeled, stored and landed ashore. To reduce the amount of hazardous waste handled on board, we have instituted a product substitution program which has enabled us to decrease the volume of such waste generated. We also regularly review equipment and revise operational procedures to reduce hazardous waste, such as optimizing the efficiency of dry cleaning machines to reduce the use of cleaning solvents.

Grey Water and Black Water

Princess adheres to all U.S. and international environmental regulations regarding the discharge of both grey and black water into the ocean. All Princess ships brought into service since 1984 are equipped with biological treatment plants that are certified by the U.S. Coast Guard as approved marine sanitation devices. The treatment facilities on board disinfect and naturally break down "black water" from toilets. "Grey water" from showers, sinks, dishwashers and food pulpers is held on board until the ship is underway and out of a port, and then is discharged into the sea in full compliance with all regulations, including EPA standards.

 

[Natasha]

That was just Princess cruise line. Next I will post Royal Caribbean.

 

[Boogie711]

Natasha - I wouldn't bother. You've made your point. Never throw facts into an argument like this - it obviously just confuses them and frustrates you.

 

[Natasha]

True.