Fills - time for the overpriced LDSs to expire!

[MikeFerrara]

Genesis,
What your not mentioning is that LP is not a SP dealer. In the case of SP It would cost me over $18,000 up front just to get the first reg in the door and I would have to get rid of some of the other lines I carry or I couldn't buy the dealership for any price!

In many cases LP and diveinn prices are less than my cost. I don't know how often they bait and switch but I have seen used stuff come in the box. I can tell you one thing and that is they don't obtain the stuff the same way we do. They buy it on the street.

Hell LP couldn't get a dealership with some manufacturers just because they can't fill tanks. My fill station is part of the product cost because I must have it to be authorized as a dealer. One shure wouldn't invest the money in a fill station to sell gas in Lafayette In.

You need to go after the manufacturers (for the right things) not the dive shops.

You miss so many major points. We talk all the time here about the lousy training. You can thank the manufacturers. Shops must give away large volumes of OW certs to have any hope of selling their quota of SP equipments. And...SP will be happy to counsel a shop on how to do just that.

So...guys like you support places like LP, forcing the lds to sell for less and play the game more. SP is still making their money and you took out all your frustration on the lds.

You may get what you want but I'm not sure you will be happy with the result. It will all be cheap and worth every penny.

You should go to work for Scuba pro or Aqualung. Your services would garantee their continued control over diving and dive training.

 

[detroit diver]

Genesis once bubbled...
in this business are something that just astounds me.

You owe no business a thing. Not allegience, not loyalty. Nothing.

Note that I said owe before you document your lack of reading comprehension in public........
.

You're right. I don't owe my LDS anything. But your attitude really sucks. My LDS works with me, and bends over backwards to make our relationship last. I, in turn, try to give them the business when it makes financial sense. Financial sense is more that just the raw cost of my purchase. It's the realization that I might need them for something special some day-something that they won't normally do for a customer that *****es and screams about a $5.00 air fill. You pay for O-rings? I don't. How 'bout regualtor plugs? Nope, not me. And they even throw in a fill or two every once in a while. And yes, they've even broken the so-called agreements with the manufacturer and given me some killer prices. I'll bet they wouldn't even give you the time of day.

You're being really short sighted here.

 

[Scuba]

Northeastwrecks wrote:

Each shop must determine what market it will service. Some will go the bargain basement route and provide minimal support. Other will charge more and provide full service.

Agreed. And each consumer must determine the relative value of these services to them. The value of a service can be broken down to dollars and cents, along with the more intangible individual values assigned by each individual to things such as convenience, trust, peace of mind, etc.

This can then be compared to the readily apparent value of the service provided by a lower price. When you can purchase two regulators with no additional service included, for the same or slightly more than the price of one with other services included (warranty, loaner, free adjustments, etc), most consumers will probably choose the service provided by the lower price when there is such a significant difference. Most important purchase consideration for most consumers is: price, price, price.

When those additional services come "bundled" in the price of the items, generally you will see services included that you will probably never use, and the ones you will use, may or may not compare favorably to the savings offered by the easy to quantify lower price service. This is an individual determination.

For many businesses it is easier to offer this bundle, which some consumers do prefer, for various reasons. They don't have to compete head to head for each individual service. It is easier to compete bundle to bundle, because of the added flexibility and the increasing difficulty for the consumer to compare various dissimiliar plans. The services paid for in the bundle and not used go into the higher profit column.

I am not against bundling, sometimes they do offer a better deal.
One way where bundling can be a real advantage for both business and consumers is in customized packages. Let the consumer choose what services are important to him/her, instead of an all or nothing deal. This way the business is able to sell a whole set of services and help it retain customers. This is an area where there is a lot of research being conducted by many top corporations. Realize each individual is unique and cater to his needs.

Things like:
I have the best merchandise. (maybe in town, only problem is your town is now the www. In a large town others do too.)
I have the best service. (do I need them, how much do you charge for them?)
You get what you pay for. (Rubbish, maybe, maybe not.)
In my opinion this is a poor excuse for having a higher price.

The internet is providing cost transparency, I read an article where the claim is made that once consumers know the cost of an item, they put pressure on prices since they determine what is a fair profit, making it more difficult for businesses to charge the higher prices charged before such transparency.

 

[Butch103]

Genesis.....I agree to some extent to what you have to say. As a retail store owner yes 1/2 slcie of bread is better than none at all. However and this is very important to understand.....In many cases you cannot sell some product for more than a certain % of the MSRP. Period. You lose the right to sell the product. This product is one of my best sellers....but I can also buy the product at a big box store on sale for less than my costs. Ask the manufacturers rep why..........volume discounts.........So do I chance it and sell the product for less to compete closrer to the big box or try to keep my margin up and sell less but more profit ??? I may break even as far as more product sold less profit or less product more profit......another "but" here if the manufacturer finds this out and decides to pull their product from my shelf...I LOSE...no buts about it.........

I cannot call you a liar regarding your previous posts. I have no Idea what research you have done and what letters you have written....again another "but"..............the retailers are stuck with the rules and regs set by the manufacturers....if they all (all LDS s that is ) decide to stop selling ..they stop airfills....they perhaps stop teaching or raise the prices so high noone can afford to learn...and then the new students can purchase their gear all online and have no IDEA is it fits right, works up to the specs etc......... :boom:

 

[Genesis]

see the "think outside the box" post...

The retailers have the ability to change these practices. We, as consumers, do not. We do not because we are too far removed from the game to be effective.

But if just a few retailers decided to declare war on the price-fixing, and put a stop to it, by debasing the value of the "shop-sold price-fixed gear" to the point that ALL those sales went to the online folks, the restrictions - and problem - would disappear overnight.

The manufacturers are having their cake and eating it too, and they're loving it. They've sold the shops on the "value" of these policies, but in fact, they're permitting the backdoor sales to the LPs and DiveInns. These items are TRIVIALLY easy to track back to the source.

For the manufacturer, its all about volume. Makes sense to me. So let's give 'em the volume - but destroy the incentive for the dealers to go along with the price management scheme.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Genesis once bubbled...
The retailers have the ability to change these practices.

When are you gonna quit whinin' and compalinin' and do it? When??? Just become a retailer and change these practices - you have the ability... you said so. And you'll blow everybody else out of the water and become rich and famous overnight - do it and prove your point.
I borrow from Hamilton when I describe your arguments as a " very specious and seducing form" but until you open your shop and prove the veracity of your position you present "nothing but fair sounding words."
Anyone can sit on the sidelines and criticize the players. It takes guts to play the game yourself.
Rick

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Dear Mr. Murchison:

Bear in mind that if he actually did this, we'd be denied his scintillating presence on the Board.

;-0

 

[Genesis]

there apparently are TWO, not one, shops in Florida with similar pricing.

The other is in cave country...

So much for "it can't be done profitably."

 

[MikeFerrara]

The other one is Bill Rennaker at Cave Excursions. He does it as I described earlier. I have been lucky enough to get the royal tour of his operation. Like I say though this works for huge volumes only.

 

[knowone]

Do you think you could post your home phone number thanks, Diraj.