Filling tanks at altitude

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OK...

OP was asking about his compressor use at altitude and Pp oxygen....and RTFM is cute, but stupid.....one item Bob is that your compressor will take a little longer to pump up a bottle due reduced ambient gas density...at 3,989 ABSL it takes perhaps 5 mins more for me to reach 3K psi starting at 500 psi with a 4+cfm compressor....no bigee and as stated it will be 21%/78%...could be incorrect but I believe Dalton's Law is applicable...

Apparently I glossed over the portion concerning variability in atmospheric composition as a function of altitude and possible effects from post-fill changes in altitude.

Suppose I could edit my post but I think I’ll let it stand and just thank you for calling me stupid.

You should still RTM…
 
Apparently I glossed over the portion concerning variability in atmospheric composition as a function of altitude and possible effects from post-fill changes in altitude.

Suppose I could edit my post but I think I’ll let it stand and just thank you for calling me stupid.

You should still RTM…

Well...at it again, no thanks needed...I did not call you stupid but intoning "RTFM" is to me a stupid comment...

No idea what RTM is nor how I should accomplish it.... :cool:

Take Care....
 
Some Bauer manuals say, only use it a max. 1'500m altitude. I don't know why.
Might be that the extra time needed to reach desired pressure in bottle overtaxes the compressor? Compounding that the compressor must work longer, harder, in that less dense air diminishes the cooling provided by the fan. Just a WAG.
 
Might be that the extra time needed to reach desired pressure in bottle overtaxes the compressor? Compounding that the compressor must work longer, harder, is that less dense air diminishes the cooling provided by the fan. Heating up compressor. Just a WAG.
 
I have a compressor and trying to find the best way to proceed

I live in the mountains at 5,777′ what should I consider when filling tanks for personal use

Will I need to adjust my dive computer while diving at sea level to a lower p02?

Comparison:

PPO2 at 5,777 feet: ≈ 2.49 psia

PPO₂ at Sea Level: ≈ 3.09 psia (rounded)

Difference:

The partial pressure of oxygen at 5,777 feet is 3.087 psia-2.4948 psia ≈ 0.5922 psia lower than at sea level.

this is a bit confusing because you ask about filling tanks at altitude and then about diving at altitude.

Filling tanks is filling tanks, the compressors largely don't care about what altitude they're being used at. They are less efficient at altitude for the same reason a naturally aspirated car loses power at altitude, but air pumped at sea level and air pumped at 6k ft is still air and 3000psi gauge in the tank is still 3000psi gauge in the tank regardless of altitude. We assume that a scuba tank is a rigid vessel and therefor is not subject to changes in atmospheric pressure. I do say assume because it's not perfectly rigid as it stretches a bit when filled, but it's functionally rigid and atmospheric pressure is certainly not enough to cause any deformation.


Now, while @lostsheep did not provide a particularly useful response and that first post is straight up trolling, I have to agree that you did not provide adequate information on either your compressor or computer to have us make any real recommendations.
That all said, this is how dive computers work. They read ambient pressure and then use that ambient pressure to run the math portion of the dive. With open circuit gases you do not set partial pressures of gas but rather fractions of gas and the computer will use the ambient pressure reading to convert the fraction of gas that you put in to a partial pressure of gas that it displays and uses for decompression calculations. Do NOT make any adjustments to the gas mixtures as a result of diving at altitude, the gas mixtures are either exactly what is analyzed out of the tanks or rounded to standard gases from the actual analysis, i.e. 31% or 33% can just stay at 32% which is part of the whole measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe.

As far as what else you need to do to safely dive at altitude, you really need to either take a course *which I personally think is not actually all that useful as the actual diving portion is irrelevant* but you at least need to read the course material and then to LostSheeps point, RTFM on your computer as the computers manual will tell you what if anything you need to do to use it at altitude.
 
Might be that the extra time needed to reach desired pressure in bottle overtaxes the compressor? Compounding that the compressor must work longer, harder, in that less dense air diminishes the cooling provided by the fan. Just a WAG.
correct, cooling issue, same/similar reasons that cars are prone to overheating at altitude. Not enough gas density to provide adequate cooling from the fans.
 
Well...at it again, no thanks needed...I did not call you stupid but intoning "RTFM" is to me a stupid comment...

No idea what RTM is nor how I should accomplish it.... :cool:

Take Care....

Read The Manual

And yeah, I stand by that assertion for anything involving life support whether it be compressors, analyzers, or computers. Going online for life-critical answers is akin to using chatgpt to plan your dives.

ETA: damn , I wasn’t deliberately trolling. Overly succinct and lacking in reading comprehension perhaps.
 
this is a bit confusing because you ask about filling tanks at altitude and then about diving at altitude.

Filling tanks is filling tanks, the compressors largely don't care about what altitude they're being used at. They are less efficient at altitude for the same reason a naturally aspirated car loses power at altitude, but air pumped at sea level and air pumped at 6k ft is still air and 3000psi gauge in the tank is still 3000psi gauge in the tank regardless of altitude. We assume that a scuba tank is a rigid vessel and therefor is not subject to changes in atmospheric pressure. I do say assume because it's not perfectly rigid as it stretches a bit when filled, but it's functionally rigid and atmospheric pressure is certainly not enough to cause any deformation.


Now, while @lostsheep did not provide a particularly useful response and that first post is straight up trolling, I have to agree that you did not provide adequate information on either your compressor or computer to have us make any real recommendations.
That all said, this is how dive computers work. They read ambient pressure and then use that ambient pressure to run the math portion of the dive. With open circuit gases you do not set partial pressures of gas but rather fractions of gas and the computer will use the ambient pressure reading to convert the fraction of gas that you put in to a partial pressure of gas that it displays and uses for decompression calculations. Do NOT make any adjustments to the gas mixtures as a result of diving at altitude, the gas mixtures are either exactly what is analyzed out of the tanks or rounded to standard gases from the actual analysis, i.e. 31% or 33% can just stay at 32% which is part of the whole measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe.

As far as what else you need to do to safely dive at altitude, you really need to either take a course *which I personally think is not actually all that useful as the actual diving portion is irrelevant* but you at least need to read the course material and then to LostSheeps point, RTFM on your computer as the computers manual will tell you what if anything you need to do to use it at altitude.
Original post said filling at altitude and diving at sea level. So I should of made that more clear.

I was originally thinking it was less oxygen so I was referring to adjusting my dive computer to match the percentage. But that was corrected early in the conversation

Also agree always double check and run the math myself and not just ask. The reason for this whole post was to understand the why and best way to proceed.
Appreciate your help in understanding the info
 
correct, cooling issue, same/similar reasons that cars are prone to overheating at altitude. Not enough gas density to provide adequate cooling from the fans.
Wow...forgot about vehicles overheating in 'thin" air and lack of active and passive air flow....also the they can vary from the 14.1 fuel to air ratio but can't remember if the overly rich [carbs] at altitude can generate more heat, I know too lean can..

Also believe the OP's initial false assumption that compressed air at altitude would have less than 21% oxygen [then changed to a less dense false assumption] was not about computer function as much as how his computer would handle his breathing gas with 'less than 21%' at sea level.....he was asking about diving at sea level with less than 21% and how the computer would react; the computer manual would not address that, but would address diving at altitude which he did not ask about. False assumptions but related to diving at sea level and compressing at altitude. He was asking for clarification in understanding the causes and effects.

I agree altitude diving requires profile/gear adjustments and if he dives at altitude he does indeed need to review adjustments in gear and profiling necessary dependent on the altitude, gas used and of course that dives will be in fresh water.

Sheep...my apology for the perceived slight; not aimed at you....the phrase behind "RTFM' or even just "RTM" is too often in my view a condescending shot that someone is lacking in knowledge or their views are incorrect. BIG assumptions and again to me inappropriate in exchange of information. None of us are first among equals and we all have a lot to learn.

Now back to reconfiguring my dive gear! Thanks for the exchange.
 
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