Feeling "comfortable in the water"

[DivingCRNA]

I am not an instructor or DM. I currently in my rescue diver course, and have spent some time lately considering diver stress and reaction. I am not discussing this to be mean or belittle. I have the following thoughts:

If a person is planning a dive and the phrase "I feel pretty comfortable in the water" comes into the conversation, shouldn't the default plan be to plan another dive?

It should be a given that you are "comfortable in the water" if you are SCUBA diving and diving more ambitious plans than you had before. There is always discomfort involved in doing new things and streatching one's boundaries, but you shouldn't have to be talking yourself into it.

Can rationalizing the dive with your comfort be a sign of stress? Like a quiet diver becoming talkative or a chatty diver getting very quiet? I keep envisioning this line of thought as being a form of a rattler shaking it's tail or a gorilla thumping its chest to comvince everyone else of who is in control.

I have recently seen this phrase come up in several posts when considering such dives as: The Speigel Grove, diving solo in muck to retrieve items, doing pretty challenging dives because "I have my AOW", diving the Devil's Throat and cenotes, etc... It scares me and I worry about the divers on the days of the dives they are questioning.

Maybe "I have my AOW" should be added to this list of warning phrases. I remember having a brand new AOW card and thinking I was Super Diver. Now I know I know much less than I thought I did then.....

Perhaps it is more important to "Feel comfortable on dry land with your dive plan" that it is to say you "feel comfortable in the water".

This sport is supposed to be fun. I know there are adrenaline junkies out there. Every sport has them. If you are one, good for you. But, if you are doing a dive that you are talking yourself into and saying "I feel comfortable in the water" maybe you should also remember "Any diver can thumb any dive at any time for any reason" and consider the physics and dangers of the dive you are planning.

I hope that this makes sense to y'all and I didn't step on any toes. It just makes me cringe to see new divers doing stuff that is way beyond their abilities.

 

[Storm]

If a person is planning a dive and the phrase "I feel pretty comfortable in the water" comes into the conversation, shouldn't the default plan be to plan another dive?

Not necessarily. Some folks are just humble in nature and find boasting or bragging, and even to some degree, stating their abilities in terms of absolutely certainty to be personally distasteful. I would also point out that if a diver says they are fully comfortable with a given dive that this could also be viewed (depending on the diver’s actual ability), as bravado. So attempting to ascertain their ability based on their use of a simple phrase could be misleading you; one way or the other.

It should be a given that you are "comfortable in the water" if you are SCUBA diving and diving more ambitious plans than you had before. There is always discomfort involved in doing new things and streatching one's boundaries, but you shouldn't have to be talking yourself into it.

I personally believe, and this applies for my own personal attitude (so take it with a grain of salt) that a certain level of trepidation should be present on ALL dives. Otherwise the other side of the coin can kick in and you then find yourself edging dangerously into the “complacent” category. Many believe that complacency is the more dangerous mindset of the two and leads to more accidents; but that could be merely anecdotal evidence at best.

Can rationalizing the dive with your comfort be a sign of stress? Like a quiet diver becoming talkative or a chatty diver getting very quiet?

Neither of these should be used exclusivley to indicate the diver’s pre-dive mental condition. I myself go through several stages or distinct behaviour patterns pre-dive even on those dives that I’ve done frequently and a well within my comfort zone. I usually start off quiet and reserved as I am assembling my gear. This is because I am concentrating one my gear and safety checklist; a task I take very seriously. After the this task is done, being a fairly gregarious person by nature, you will find me chatting it up, joking, asking questions, and offering anyone who might need what help my limited experience can offer, etc, and just generally enjoying the company of the other divers on the boat who are not pre-occupied with their gear check out.

Right before the dive I grow quiet as I run through my mental pre-dive routine. The last few minutes or so before the pre-dive buddy checks, I start to relax my breathing, and start my buoyancy visualization. I do a once over on the gear, suit up, do buddy check and relax myself and breathing pending the entry, in relative quiet; again this just my way of “zoning in” before the big splash.

Now by your way of thinking (or at least by your questions), and seeing how I’ve just run the full gamut of behaviour that you are wondering about, you would probably think that I need to be at the worst, tied up and left on the boat (for my own safety) or at the least be a cause for further watching, and concern.

I understand your motive and applaud your efforts but trying to ascertain a diver’s comfort level and abilities by their above water behaviour and using simplistic boilerplate symptoms like the ones you mentioned above might actually lead you in the wrong direction. There are too many variables in human behaviour and human nature to make accurate assessments, and thus you must go with your instincts and “gut” feeling and hope you’ve made the right call.

 

[runamonk]

I have my moments when I feel anxious and you wouldn't be able to tell. I like my wife am very reserved and don't tend to show alot of emotion or typical signs. Even when my was distressed in some of our recent dives because of little issues that turned into bigger ones for her she didn't really show it at all. It's impressive but scary at the same time because it would be nice to know. So in this instance we came up with a hand signal to let each other know when we're feeling a stressed.

Some people just don't talk alot about their diving prowess or anything like that.

I still get the butterflies before a dive, mostly excitement but a little bit of anxiety as well. It keeps me on my toes.

 

[DivingCRNA]

Neither of these should be used exclusivley to indicate the diver’s pre-dive mental condition. I myself go through several stages or distinct behaviour patterns pre-dive even on those dives that I’ve done frequently and a well within my comfort zone. I usually start off quiet and reserved as I am assembling my gear. This is because I am concentrating one my gear and safety checklist; a task I take very seriously. After the this task is done, being a fairly gregarious person by nature, you will find me chatting it up, joking, asking questions, and offering anyone who might need what help my limited experience can offer, etc, and just generally enjoying the company of the other divers on the boat who are not pre-occupied with their gear check out.

Right before the dive I grow quiet as I run through my mental pre-dive routine. The last few minutes or so before the pre-dive buddy checks, I start to relax my breathing, and start my buoyancy visualization. I do a once over on the gear, suit up, do buddy check and relax myself and breathing pending the entry, in relative quiet; again this just my way of “zoning in” before the big splash.

Now by your way of thinking (or at least by your questions), and seeing how I’ve just run the full gamut of behaviour that you are wondering about, you would probably think that I need to be at the worst, tied up and left on the boat (for my own safety) or at the least be a cause for further watching, and concern.

I understand your motive and applaud your efforts but trying to ascertain a diver’s comfort level and abilities by their above water behaviour and using simplistic boilerplate symptoms like the ones you mentioned above might actually lead you in the wrong direction. There are too many variables in human behaviour and human nature to make accurate assessments, and thus you must go with your instincts and “gut” feeling and hope you’ve made the right call.

It would seem that I did not make myself clear. I did not intend to say that every diver that is quiet or every diver that is talkative is stressed. I do not know anything about you or your diving practices. I used these as talkativeness and quietness as signs of stress because they are cited in the PADI rescue materials. I never considered any of the behaviors that you mentioned as biolerplate symptoms of stress. I actually work in a field where every decision that I make is in the context of the whole situation and I have very few boilerplate rules in my life.

For example-Take the MOF debate. I am not a MOF kind of guy. I just do not want to drop my mask and have to fetch it, but I do not think that MOF is a sure sign of stress, or distress, either. I also have no problem if someone else wants to be a MOF.

Anyway, I would not say that using "comfortable in the water" as a rational to do a dive is ALWAYS a sign of the dive being to challenging. I would say that one should examine their feelings about and motivation for doing dives and that if one finds themselves using this particular rationalization to do dives that are beyond one's comfort zone. There is a big difference in "comfortable in the water" at 30 feet, 80 degrees with 200 foot vis and no current and "comfortable in the water" at 100 feet, 50 degrees with 5-10 foot vis and current.

Peace out. Have fun, be safe:scubadive

Man I wish I could dive today, but being on call and being under water do not go together...:shakehead

 

[MikeFerrara]

To my way of thinking, being comfortable with a dive means being confident that you can deal with the problems that are associated with that dive. Lots of divers are determining confort based on how they felt on other dives where nothing went wrong. In most cases, nothing will go wrong but...the question really is "how comfortable are you with the worst case that is realistically possible for the dive?" Things like total gas loss, getting blown off the wreck, free flows, lost masks or whatever.

How often do we hear divers say they were comfortable and enjoyed their dive to 130 in devils throat or 140 in the blue hole but on further examination we find out that they did NOT have enough gas reserved to get an OOA buddy back to the surface. They FELT comfortable enough but they really shouldn't have. I have to submit that how you "feel" can be deceiving. You had better have a good idea of what can go wrong on the planned dive, plan for it and know that you can execute those contingincy plans. Knowledge and skill is what's important and NOT how you "feel"!

If you have the skill, you will "feel confident and comfortable. The problem is that if you don't have the skill, you may still feel comfortable but it's just ignorance...bliss maybe but ignorance.

 

[jeckyll]

I really don't think you can narrow it down to a simple phrase... Unless you really know a person, a change in behaviour is going to be very hard to spot.

IMO, if you are diving with someone new, you should be doing an easy shallow dive to see how the act underwater and how much their diving habits mesh with yours. What phrasing they use after that is not very relevant to me

Just my $0.02.

 

[FredT]

There comes a time in most long time divers wet time where "comfortable in the water" turns to complacency. This is dangerous until Mother Ocean runs a drill on them they are NOT pre-prepared for. For many active divers this is about 5 years into the sport. Those that survive this first drill and are still diving are probably the best buddies to have on any "familiar water" dive for the next 5-7 years, then Mother Ocean will run another drill and reset the complacency needle again.

I'd personally rather be underwater than on land or on deck in almost all reasonable weather and circumstances. OTOH Mother Ocean has drilled me repeatedly over the last 38 years.

Be aware that Mother Ocean is a hungry wench who WILL be feed eventually. Our job is delay that event as long as possible.

FT

 

[Storm]

I used these as talkativeness and quietness as signs of stress because they are cited in the PADI rescue materials.

In one set of course material they specifically tell all their students that they should quiet down right before a dive to start the visualization procedures…Peak Performance Buoyancy…then tell students that this could be considered a symptom of an uncomfortable diver…Rescue course… it struck me as odd. That’s all; a reflection on their training material, not you as the student.

It’s far too subjective, but given the different dynamics of human behaviour, it’s the best that be done; I suppose. I commend anyone who tries to better their abilities in the face of such a daunting challenge as human dynamics and did not mean to sound like I was belittling your efforts. I was merely pointing out that by developing your own instincts, using your own personal experience in conjunction with your training, and add in a bit of critically thinking you’ll be well served.

For example-Take the MOF debate. I am not a MOF kind of guy. I just do not want to drop my mask and have to fetch it, but I do not think that MOF is a sure sign of stress, or distress, either. I also have no problem if someone else wants to be a MOF.

I’m pretty ambivalent about the whole MOF thing. It’s seems like a more natural action for me to slide the mask up, when I’m on the surface, but I’ve taken to placing it on backwards so I do not cause concern to the DM/charter ops. Besides sliding the mask down around my neck puts too gear hanging there as that is where my secondary second stage is necklaced.

Anyway, I would not say that using "comfortable in the water" as a rational to do a dive is ALWAYS a sign of the dive being to challenging. I would say that one should examine their feelings about and motivation for doing dives and that if one finds themselves using this particular rationalization to do dives that are beyond one's comfort zone. There is a big difference in "comfortable in the water" at 30 feet, 80 degrees with 200 foot vis and no current and "comfortable in the water" at 100 feet, 50 degrees with 5-10 foot vis and current.

Agreed

However, I am now in a constant state of “pretty comfortable” by choice and prefer to stay there… There is a fine line between under confident, confident and over-confident and I now err on the side of caution. It was the “pretty comfortable” that once got me into trouble (and almost tragicaly so..so I agree with you), but after gaining more experience, it is the “pretty comfortable” that keeps me from becoming complacent, and hopefully will keep me out of trouble.

Safe Dives.

PS I also feel your pain at not diving today. I'm beached. more becasue of weather, but beached none the less.

 

[stevetim]

Anxiety about an activity doesn't mean you are doing the activity beyond your capable skill level. I think anxiety and comfortable are two words that are closely related but inferred differently from an outside perspective when judging one's "experience" and capabilities.

 

[RJP]

The fact is, that most people are NOT comfortable in the water. Even a lot of good divers. Given that, I think that if someone *IS* comfortable in the water they are a leg up on most people.

Think about it this way: if someone is *NOT* comfortable in the water, they sure as hell are not going to be comfortable losing a mask, or having a stuck inflator valve, or whatever.

Reason is that when a problem occurs for someone who is *NOT* comfortable in the water, the first thought they have is "Oh sh|t, I'm in the water while having this problem!" So when a problem occurs, they have *TWO* problems:

1.) I lost my mask, and
2.) I'm in the WATER!

People who are comfortable in the water only have *ONE* problem to deal with. And I know plenty of divers who are *NOT* comfortable in the water, but are great divers. As long as nothing goes wrong. And they take precautions to ensure nothing goes wrong, and that they are prepared if something does.

All things considered equal, I'd rather dive with someone who is comfortable in the water than with someone who is not.

That said, if the person is saying that they are "comfortable in the water" but what they mean is "I'm comfortable with the fact that something is going to go wrong on this dive..." well that's a different story.