OP
As long as it doesnt violate our civil liberities.
Ryan
FBI Collecting your Information
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As long as it doesnt violate our civil liberities.
Ryan
ScubyDoo
Contributor
I hope your opinion is not the majority Arduous. I agree that as a nation we must take extraordinary actions against the evils which face us, but eroding our freedom is not one of them. Hundreds of thousands of men have died to protect these freedoms which so many are now so willing to sacrifice. Im a lawful citizen....I never break the law, but I still dont want the FBI or any other government agency snooping around in my personal business without just cause. There are other ways to fight terrorism besides destroying the framework...the binding fabric......of this great country.
Also, in a free country we dont ask people to leave just because they dont like the way its being run. Instead we ask them to practice one of the fundamental tenents of what makes America great, which is to voice thier opposition for all to hear, and to exercise thier right to vote for new leadership.
Who was it that said "Give me Liberty, or Give Me Death"?
tchil01
Guest
As someone who was there when we wre attacked... who watched people jump out of windows, who had to run out of the path of the falling towers... and watched them load body parts from the 3000 people who died at the hands of those a******* who only knew hate... I welcome anything that the FBI does to help prevent something like this from ever happening gin on our soil...
Ty
Ty
OP
Exactly! Sure I feel sorry for those who died in the World Trade Center, but that doesnt mean I'm willing to give up all my freedoms at the expensive of the american public.
Arduous, Since your so PRO-GOVERNMENT, why dont we just throw out the constitution while we are at it. How many people died for that???
I wont loose any sleep over this. In order to have security you have to give up some freedom. At this point I cann't think of any reason why I care if the FBI knows Im certified. When weighed against the possibility that they could use the information to catch a terrorist before they strike, its not much of a price to pay.
But remember; just because your paranoid doesnt mean theyre not out to get you.
Mike
But remember; just because your paranoid doesnt mean theyre not out to get you.
Mike
OP
And where do you draw the line Mike?? Sure give up a little freedom in the name of catching terrorist, then we give up a little more and a little more.. and soon theres no more to give up.. So PLEASE enlighten me with where you draw the line on this?
The only one who wins this is the terroist. They instill fear in the american public and in our rush to save the world we give up the one thing we have fought so hard to preserve. I'm not paranoid or worried the government is out to get me, personally I could care less they know I dive, but that isnt the point!. I AM however PRO-AMERICAN and dont believe we should allow the government to step all over us for whatever cause they are seeking to save. Thats why we have Laws Mike.. Next your going to say we should though out the right to the 4th amendment and allow police to not need a search warrent to enter someones house or place of business and go through your personal stuff. Our laws were designed to protect the innocent as well as the accused from government abuse. Its these laws like the MIRANDA rights that protect us, and I by no means am willing to throw the rule book out the window.
Ryan
sharpenu
Contributor
I believe that part of being in a free country is being free from the government intruding into our lives. It is only a small step from here to the "Papers, please." That so many governments have fallen into.
I have served this country for most of my adult life, first in it's military, and then as a firefighter. I do not want to see it fall into mindless dictatorship, all in the name of safety.
You say "If you don't do anything wrong...". Hmmm. What if they tell you that all mail has to be brought to the post office unsealed, so it can be read for subversive content? What if some activities get marked as subversive? This board, or even diving, for example?
If we allow our freedoms to be taken away in the mane of safety, we have allowed the terrorists to win. All of those people who have come before us to die for this country will have died in vain.
I have served this country for most of my adult life, first in it's military, and then as a firefighter. I do not want to see it fall into mindless dictatorship, all in the name of safety.
You say "If you don't do anything wrong...". Hmmm. What if they tell you that all mail has to be brought to the post office unsealed, so it can be read for subversive content? What if some activities get marked as subversive? This board, or even diving, for example?
If we allow our freedoms to be taken away in the mane of safety, we have allowed the terrorists to win. All of those people who have come before us to die for this country will have died in vain.
R
redacted
Guest
It does bother me a bit that the government is collecting more info on us. To the extent it is used to defeat terrorism, I think it is great. But I am a bit conserned about what else some beaurocrat might decide to do with that information. Yet I don't see a more tolerable option. Our intel community, in spite of some shortfalls in the past, needs information to do the job we expect them to do. If you think you have some better ideas, lets take a look.
I think this will likely turn out to be a big embarrassment for the FBI. If going door to door checking dive shops isn't spitting into the wind, I don't know what is. My shop is in a university town. We have trained many who might fit the profile in question. However, none of my former students are likely to engage in under water terrorist acts. I am very careful to explain to students that they should not dive beyond their training and experience. I'm afraid that without suppervision or additional training like AOW and maybe a specialty or two I would have to strongly recomend that they not attempt a dive of this nature. None of these divers have purchased equipment and to engage in such activities wearing unfamiliar or poor fitting rental gear would be folly.
Here is a question? As an instructor and dive shop owner, If a former student was injured while performing underwater terrorist acts could I be held responsible in a law suit?
Sorry...but it's hard to take seriously.
Here is a question? As an instructor and dive shop owner, If a former student was injured while performing underwater terrorist acts could I be held responsible in a law suit?
Sorry...but it's hard to take seriously.
Scubaroo
Contributor
Can somebody please explain how a scuba diver is losing some of their freedom just because the FBI has their name on a list with 1,000,000 other peoples names, that has "List of Scuba Divers" written at the top of it?
Sure, the list is probably going to be cross-referenced with INS records and other information. Still, where is the loss of freedom?
Lets say the cross-referencing comes up with 1,000 matches - non-citizens like me who have done scuba training since moving to the United States. Any loss of freedom yet? Certainly not for any US citizens. Mine and 1,000 other visa applications and INS records are probably going to get pulled and looked at though.
Let's say that 3 out of the 1,000 matches also has an Afghanistan or any of a number of other "axis of evil" type countries' stamps in the passport. Okay, interview time.
Lets say that 1 out the 3 is also on a list of names that some special ops troops found in a cave in Afghanistan before they blew it up. Uh-oh, I can see the loss of freedom coming - and it ain't mine.
Or is the loss of freedom for the diver, the lost opportunity to shore dive the brand new wreck of a cruise ship in Miami after it was sunk by a terrorist act?
Sounds like hysteria to me.
Sure, the list is probably going to be cross-referenced with INS records and other information. Still, where is the loss of freedom?
Lets say the cross-referencing comes up with 1,000 matches - non-citizens like me who have done scuba training since moving to the United States. Any loss of freedom yet? Certainly not for any US citizens. Mine and 1,000 other visa applications and INS records are probably going to get pulled and looked at though.
Let's say that 3 out of the 1,000 matches also has an Afghanistan or any of a number of other "axis of evil" type countries' stamps in the passport. Okay, interview time.
Lets say that 1 out the 3 is also on a list of names that some special ops troops found in a cave in Afghanistan before they blew it up. Uh-oh, I can see the loss of freedom coming - and it ain't mine.
Or is the loss of freedom for the diver, the lost opportunity to shore dive the brand new wreck of a cruise ship in Miami after it was sunk by a terrorist act?
Sounds like hysteria to me.
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