Father and son run over by dive charter

[Jax]

That is sad.

Is it possible that they fell in? Is it possible that they thought they heard an instruction to enter the water?

That answer won't come about until the investigation is complete, probably.

I guess I now understand why so many boats have chains across the rear of the boat.

 

[trtldvr]

That answer won't come about until the investigation is complete, probably.

I guess I now understand why so many boats have chains across the rear of the boat.[/QUOTE


I can imagine a couple different scenarios of them ending up in the water from the platform, ranging from both of them falling, to 1 falling and the other trying to grab them, to them both jumping early (In my mind the least likely, but we don't know).

Regardless of how they ended up in the water while the boat was in gear, the issue is why were they on the platform while the boat was in gear? Being suited up, ready to go on the platform is a sometimes usefull practice when bouncing a wreck and requires good communication and trust between diver and captain, but letting this happen in this situatation is at the least irresponsible on the part of captan and crew.


Safe dives
Trtldvr

 

[Splitlip]

On these boats, it gets jerky often as the captain is setting up the drop. (This may change the way it is done.) As the captain shifts the engines from forward to reverse the pair on the platform are holding on...add rough seas..maybe an 11 yearold should not have been the first to be "standing in the door". Remember, the captain is not only looking at the stern, but forward, his bottom finder, GPS, flag etc.

 

[mike_s]

FWC report summary, verbatim. Boldface mine. Not saying its 100 percent accurate; saying its what the FWC says in its initial report:

On 080911 at approximately 0910 hours a commercial dive charter vessel was operating a drift dive approximatley one mile north of Conch reef. Two divers standing on the stern dive platform jumped into the water while the vessel was in reverse gear. The divers were struck by the vessel propellers sustaining severe life threatening injuries. The divers were airlifted to Dade County hospitals for treatment of their injuries.

\



that's why most captains make sure both engines are CUT OFF before they let divers in the water. No matter what. Just to avoid stuff like this.


Maybe this was the divers fault for jumping in while he was in reverse, but it will likely be decided that the captain didn't have good control/communication with his mates on the dive deck of what operation he was performing.


unfortunate situation for all... I hope the injured recover well.

 

[Sabanist]

I find it way difficult to believe that a diver and son would just jump in the water prematurely.

It's like so far fetched I can't think of any possible scenario

 

[Splitlip]

First, you don't have to deploy a sausage in west palm to come up away from the flag...you can listen to hear boats in the area. It is fine for people to deploy from underwater, but this pales in comparison to listening and looking, first.

Pleasure Boats and fishing boats do not look for divers...we are not even there, as far as most are concerned.

If I come up from a recreational duration dive, away from the dive flag -- I am not going to waste my time deploying a float... I am going to do my stop at 10 feet, then when ready, I am going to listen....when I don't hear any approaching boats, I will surface fast, spin around and look for oncoming boats....Doppler shift works great underwater....you really can tell alot about what is happening on the surface, before you poke your head up.
If I was really smart, I'd be coming up by the flag someone was pulling...since we all know that is not always who I am , the listening and looking behavior is what keeps me safe for when we could not be part of a larger group, or couldn;t be bothered to tow a float.


Once I am up, if I am a long way from the boat, I will deploy a sausage or my Halcyon Surfmat, to make it easier for the boat to find my buddy and I.

I look and listen with a marker or without. Given the choice, I'll do it with a marker sent when I leave the bottom. A lot of those boaters are divers or regulars, and they know what it means. Even if they don't know what it means, I supect they'll slow down as they approach. I can't imagine one running down a 5 or 6 ft marker if they did not know what it was. And the last 15 ft, I am directly under mine.

Sending mine from the bottem does more than just (hopefully) alert other boats, but let's my boat pilot know where I am (or was should he go off station) and he can help keep boats off me.

Surfacing from a 90 ft dive in 3 mph current:

30 ft per minute = 3 minutes.
Mid water stop = 1 + minute.
Safety stop = 3 + minutes.

~7 minutes to surface.

3 MPH = 264 ft per minute.
@ 7 minutes = 1848 ft.

1848/5280 = more than a 1/3 of a mile from leaving the bottom.

And the guy with the flag might be hooked off. At the least, he does not need to drift at 3 MPH.

and what about sailboats? (i'll shoot my marker)

 

[Splitlip]

There isn't a charter boat in West Palm that would turn away a diver who admits he has never deployed a smbd from depth.
Instructors take their students on these dives every weekend for their initial open water check out dives.

It would not be a matter for discussion if not for the silly new requirements for safety stops and and the 30 ft per minute rule . Time was it was 60 ft per minute and there was no such thing as a "safety stop". A minute or so and we could surface by the flag/ball/jug/boat. Life was good.

Having said that, when I did a second AOW class as a refresher in 1999, my instructor used JASA. When we left the dive guide for my skills, first thing my instructor did was shoot a DSMB. My daughter was certed with the Scuba Club. I could not go on her cert dives but I had friends that liked the place, and dived with the op. They put 2 to 4 guides in the water, all of whom shoot markers to escort guests to the surface.

JDC is my shop now. If you go on their trips, you must have an SMB. (not DSMB) Although no requirement to shoot a DSMB, they do want a signaling device when the diver surfaces. In their AOW classes, they teach shooting a DSMB from depth.

 

[jester1226]

There is no way these two got to the back of the boat suited up and ready to go without being seen by staff
on the boat. If this were a drift dive, why would the boat be going in reverse, they could just let the divers
get in and start the drift. Something does not sound right about any of the info being given out.

I also have a problem with the info regarding the Father and Son getting to the back of the boat with it
moving. I know I would not let my son do that, and can't fathom another father allowing it. I know this
is speculation, but it sounds to me like they were on the back and for some reason the captain started
backing up and they (possible the son slipping in and his father going in after him) fell in.

The info is missing a few pieces....

 

[Jax]

There is no way these two got to the back of the boat suited up and ready to go without being seen by staff
on the boat. If this were a drift dive, why would the boat be going in reverse, they could just let the divers
get in and start the drift. Something does not sound right about any of the info being given out.

I also have a problem with the info regarding the Father and Son getting to the back of the boat with it
moving. I know I would not let my son do that, and can't fathom another father allowing it. I know this
is speculation, but it sounds to me like they were on the back and for some reason the captain started
backing up and they (possible the son slipping in and his father going in after him) fell in.

The info is missing a few pieces....

We don't know anything about it being a drift dive. The FWC report is the closest thing to authoritative.

 

[danvolker]

There is no way these two got to the back of the boat suited up and ready to go without being seen by staff
on the boat. If this were a drift dive, why would the boat be going in reverse, they could just let the divers
get in and start the drift. Something does not sound right about any of the info being given out.

I also have a problem with the info regarding the Father and Son getting to the back of the boat with it
moving. I know I would not let my son do that, and can't fathom another father allowing it. I know this
is speculation, but it sounds to me like they were on the back and for some reason the captain started
backing up and they (possible the son slipping in and his father going in after him) fell in.

The info is missing a few pieces....

I agree with you that the crew should have seen the father and son moving to the back of the boat.

As to why a drift boat might back up, if the boat passed over a bottom feature they wanted to drop over...a ledge, a big cave, whatever, backing up could happen...but the crew should have been controlling the divers at this point...controlling where they were in the process of getting ready to jump in...and of course, not letting them jump in prior to the right time.


Because of the moving current in drift diving, it is common for the boat to be under power, going forward, with divers walking to the back and lining up in the stern....but no one jumps in prior to the DIVE, DIVE, DIVE command.


I can see the boat backing up, but if they were, they should have been near a drop site, which would mean that the crew should have been controling the progress or plan on when divers hit the water... I have a hard time imagining a scenario where the boat would be backing near a dive site, with no crew member right at the rear of the boat--holding the divers back till time to jump in....
I have not seen anything close to this in 30 years of drift diving.

I imagine the actual account of this will be surprising....something wierd must have happened.