Fatality on Benwood

[arrowskier]

Got it. Understood and thanx! Will respond via PM also.


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[tracydr]

Captain Larry, another thought I had regarding your post: it is good to know how experienced Steve was. In the confusion and stress of being swept away from the dive boat by the current, I wasn't sure in the moment who had come to help us. All I heard was his voice and saw a light. And then he started coughing, which escalated rapidly. I was slightly separated from the two men (he was with my husband and I was a few yards away), but when I heard this, I came over to them to investigate - and at first, could not locate Steve - shortly thereafter (no more than a minute or so), I found Steve unresponsive, not breathing, mouth open, face up. Part of the shock of that was that he didn't appear to have any floatation, nor a mask (I realize now that if he had suffered cardiac arrest, he might have removed and lost his mask). I was kind of blown away by this, thinking to myself at that time "but this guy has no gear to protect himself....". I realize now that he had likely brought a rescue line with a buoy attached, but we were far beyond the reach of that, so he let go to get to us (without any protection for himself), not knowing how strong the current was....your comments make me realize that sometimes one can be VERY experienced, and yet - tragedy can occur.

I wonder if he had immersion pulmonary edema. It can happen on the surface to swimmers and he could have similar symptoms to what you describe.

---------- Post added November 21st, 2015 at 11:17 AM ----------

To me - this is very interesting/telling. I have done lots of shore dives and a few times I have pulled my regulator out of my mouth before being completely on shore or being able to stand up. I have inhaled droplets of water (best way I can describe it - not a mouth full) and have gone into a severe coughing spasm. It has caused my throat to shut down and I could not get a breath of air in my lungs each time it has happened to me - luckily I was within a very short distance and could get myself to shore and it would take all my concentration to stop coughing and get a breath of air in my lungs before I thought I would pass out. Had I not been on land I am not sure I would have been able to steady myself and get a breath... I now make sure my reg stays in my mouth until I am on the boat or standing in waist deep water.

What you described sounds similar to my type of episodes - I have no history of lung issues or asthma - I am very active in running and working out. But the few times it has happened to me - I have been somewhat incapacitated and I can not imagine being in open water without support to regain my breathing. It is possible that he took on some water and had a similar episode... Even a snorkel can in my opinion help in these situations.

I had this happen once when I was eating bread with balsamic vinegar. I truly thought I was going to die and started to black out. Worst thing was that nobody realized how much trouble I was actually in!

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Something like this is so hard to deal with especially when there are different people with different life experiences and coping mechanisms involved. I found in our incident one person was ready to talk and divulge a lot more information to certain other parties than we were. In our case we felt there was potential for legal ramifications for divulging too much too soon. In this incident IMHO a person would have to be foolish indeed to interpret anything that the posters here did as anything but exceptional responses to something totally and completely out of the control.

We all need to heal our way in our own time and there is no "normal" right or wrong time for that. It is just so individual. I needed to "talk it out" contribute to the analysis while my husband really wanted to try to bury it and the third person was different again while the person we dived with a few days before had his healing and recovery work to do as well.

Every single one of us had the right to do what we felt we needed. The same is true here. tracidna may have had enough to process it and need/want to step away and arrowskiier may need more time and discussion. It goes back to what I posted earlier... give yourselves permission to react as you feel is best for you to heal. If further discussion and speculation here is what you feel is right for you that is fine. If it isn't that is fine too. I just want to stress again that support online however caring and supportive can not replace face to face time with qualified people in the real world when a person is having problems. It may be that professional help isn't necessary but the best judge of that is the person themselves.

Sorry if this is a Hijack but I think A&I helps in a number of ways. Discussion and reasonable speculation of what might or might not have contributed to the accidents makes divers more aware and potentially saves lives. Appropriate discussion and support helps the survivors to process the incident and contributes to their safety. :consolation: Supportive respectful discussion read by others may make people feel safer in providing information should they become involved in a tragedy so we can learn more from them.

 

[Max Speed]

Max Speed,

Most diving fatalities are still wearing their weights, dropping weights at the first sign of trouble may be a bit of overkill, but then again, it may not. in the keys, I would think wearing likely a 3 mm, probably 10 lbs of rented weight costing the dive shop all of 20 dollars, I cannot think of a shop that wouldn't trade a fatality for 20 bucks every day of the week. In fact, there is a spear gun manufacturer out there that will give a new weight belt and weights to anyone who buys their weight system and drops it due to an emergency.

Todd

Still not really getting the need. It's not unusual to have to float around for 20-45 minutes waiting for a pickup. Especially if you have widely differing run times and the dive boat isn't tied in. What if you're on open circuit and another guy is on a rebreather? Now if my wing sprung a leak...I can't even drop my belt without undoing a waist belt and a crotch strap. If I took off the belt I'd probably end up feet up, face down! Unless I use the scissors....

Now that I think about it... In Florida waters I don't even have a weight belt to drop. I'd have to drop the tank or tanks. Yikes!

 

[Pinecube]

Still not really getting the need. It's not unusual to have to float around for 20-45 minutes waiting for a pickup. Especially if you have widely differing run times and the dive boat isn't tied in. What if you're on open circuit and another guy is on a rebreather? Now if my wing sprung a leak...I can't even drop my belt without undoing a waist belt and a crotch strap. If I took off the belt I'd probably end up feet up, face down! Unless I use the scissors....

Now that I think about it... In Florida waters I don't even have a weight belt to drop. I'd have to drop the tank or tanks. Yikes!

It depends on your situation, someone diving in 7mm of neoprene dropping 10-15lbs of lead will be much different than someone who only has a couple pounds to drop.

You bring up something that I've been meaning to ask; what is the point of a weight belt if you wear it under your harness? Isn't the point of a weight belt to be ditchable? I'd rather just put weight pockets on my harness.

 

[Max Speed]

If you have the weight on your harness and you take off your rig you will tend to leave it. That is bad since your gas is attached to it.

 

[Carl_F]

You bring up something that I've been meaning to ask; what is the point of a weight belt if you wear it under your harness? Isn't the point of a weight belt to be ditchable? I'd rather just put weight pockets on my harness.

Weight belt under the harness is to ensure a failure of the weight belt does not result in an uncontrolled ascent. Very important if you have a deco obligation. Not a configuration I'd recommend for a recreational dive. I could get the weight belt off from underneath my harness but it takes some effort. There shouldn't be any situation where I'm on a tech dive (deco obligation) that I have to ditch the weight belt in a second or two. I have redundancy with the dual bladder wing. I have gas redundancy.

On a recreational dive without redundancy of buoyancy or gas, I want some quickly ditchable weights. In my rec configuration, I have some weight pouches on my harness.

 

[Diver0001]

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[Peter69_56]

Weight belt under the harness is to ensure a failure of the weight belt does not result in an uncontrolled ascent. Very important if you have a deco obligation. Not a configuration I'd recommend for a recreational dive. I could get the weight belt off from underneath my harness but it takes some effort. There shouldn't be any situation where I'm on a tech dive (deco obligation) that I have to ditch the weight belt in a second or two. I have redundancy with the dual bladder wing. I have gas redundancy.

On a recreational dive without redundancy of buoyancy or gas, I want some quickly ditchable weights. In my rec configuration, I have some weight pouches on my harness.

I agree totally. While diving the HMS Repulse with about 25 min of deco obligation and 5 knot surface currents, I was tapped on my shoulder by a dive buddy and he was pointing at something. I looked down to see something orange disappearing quickly into the gloom. I realised it was my weight belt which had come off (and under my crotch strap as well). I realised quickly I could not allow myself to become adrift from the upline in any circumstances or it may all end badly for me with 25 min of deco remaining, 200 miles or more from any deco chamber and a strong current running.

Clearly recreational diving risks are significantly different to technical diving when considering dumping weight belts. As the previous poster said, having a deco obligation means dumping of a weight belt is possibly the last thing a diver wants to or should do. With recreational diving as long as you are meeting your NDL, dumping a weight belt and heading to the surface (be it controlled or relatively uncontrolled) poses much less of a risk.

Often in tech diving not only do we have dual bladders but a dry suit as well so stacks of buoyancy (never mind the SMB we carry which is additional buoyancy too).

---------- Post added November 28th, 2015 at 12:21 AM ----------

Something like this is so hard to deal with especially when there are different people with different life experiences and coping mechanisms involved. I found in our incident one person was ready to talk and divulge a lot more information to certain other parties than we were. In our case we felt there was potential for legal ramifications for divulging too much too soon. In this incident IMHO a person would have to be foolish indeed to interpret anything that the posters here did as anything but exceptional responses to something totally and completely out of the control.

We all need to heal our way in our own time and there is no "normal" right or wrong time for that. It is just so individual. I needed to "talk it out" contribute to the analysis while my husband really wanted to try to bury it and the third person was different again while the person we dived with a few days before had his healing and recovery work to do as well.

Every single one of us had the right to do what we felt we needed. The same is true here. tracidna may have had enough to process it and need/want to step away and arrowskiier may need more time and discussion. It goes back to what I posted earlier... give yourselves permission to react as you feel is best for you to heal. If further discussion and speculation here is what you feel is right for you that is fine. If it isn't that is fine too. I just want to stress again that support online however caring and supportive can not replace face to face time with qualified people in the real world when a person is having problems. It may be that professional help isn't necessary but the best judge of that is the person themselves.

Sorry if this is a Hijack but I think A&I helps in a number of ways. Discussion and reasonable speculation of what might or might not have contributed to the accidents makes divers more aware and potentially saves lives. Appropriate discussion and support helps the survivors to process the incident and contributes to their safety. :consolation: Supportive respectful discussion read by others may make people feel safer in providing information should they become involved in a tragedy so we can learn more from them.

I think this post says it all. The object of this forum is to provide information and help (relating to diving) to others, however it should not be at the expense of peoples feelings and sensitivities, in particular when they have been exposed some way to a traumatic event. It is often easy for people posting to be very clinical and not sensitive to these issues. We should be respectful of the pain and trauma of others and allow them grieving time, that we do not feel their pain does not excuse us for being insensitive.

I believe the object here is support for others, learning and teaching

I think this comment is an appropriate reminder; " Leave ego's at the door, they are not conducive to good diving or quality conversations, just excess baggage and too much drag, just like an over inflated wing"

 

[Storker]

what is the point of a weight belt if you wear it under your harness? Isn't the point of a weight belt to be ditchable? I'd rather just put weight pockets on my harness.

I've got both.

Yes, I use quite a bit of weight. Drysuit + heavy undergarments is my standard config except for a couple of months in the summer. Since, with my body shape, it's a mite complicated to hitch the belt high enough for it to hang on my hips outside my harness, I wear the belt under my harness. OTOH, I've got weight pouches as well, so I've got my ditchable weight divided in three parts: Two weight pouches and one belt. I've got a little more in my two pockets than on the belt. If SHTF, I can ditch one pocket, two pockets or - with a bit of work - all of it. And if S really HTF, I've got a knife on my calf and another one on my harness. Both of them can cut either a weight belt or BP webbing...

I believe that if you carry a bit of weight it's a good thing to divide the ditchable weight into moderate portions, in case it's necessary to ditch underwater. However, if I would have to ditch anything, I think it's a lot more probable that I'm on the surface at that time.