If you want depth, go to Gilboa. Deep side is 130ish.
Extended Range courses via SSI
- Thread starter Kaneda13
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halocline
Contributor
Uh oh. My suggestion is to not buy that harness. You should get a plain, 1 piece webbing harness. In fact, I would avoid OMS stuff in general; that company has a terrible reputation for customer service, and there are usually better choices for technical dive gear.
Regarding the instruction, you might consider taking courses from an agency (and shop) that specializes in technical diving.
If you want another agency (TDI), @Tracy who posted earlier is pretty damn good. He can do AN/DP/Helitrox. I’ve dived with divers he’s turned out and I did a day with him on my finning. Can’t recommend him enough. He’s in the Detroit area so not terribly far from you. And he’s got helium fairly cheap.
Eh, it isn't a terrible harness. There are certainly way worse options on the market. I personally prefer a one piece harness, but it isn't the end all be all way to dive. Buoyancy and trim are considerably more important to me than the brand and type of harness they purchase.
I run an adjustable harness on my rebreather, that is what I used back when I had over the shoulder counterlungs, unclipping one side was the easiest way to doff and don. That harness is still on my unit, it works, no reason to swap it out.
ginti
Contributor
Hi @Kaneda13, I have a bit more time now, I hope that what I write can help you.
POINT 1 - diving goals
Everything starts here. You said that you want to do
Deep needs to be quantified; for me, it is anything below 90m (even if I don't dive below 60m). And for you?
Penetration is a very vague word; do you want to go inside wrecks never explored before, or do you just want to have a swim inside a cabin from which you can see the sunlight?
Also, do you prefer solo or team diving?
There are other things to consider, but they are way more advanced (e.g. rebreather)
POINT 2 - how to start
Independently of your goal, all tech diving starts from solid foundations. That is:
- diving skills (especially buoyancy, trim, and finning techniques);
- drills (sharing gas, DSMB deployment, and valve-drill);
- awareness;
- knowledge of the equipment.
Now, two common issues are:
(1) people learn bad habits during their rec courses, so when they approach tech diving they first have to forget these bad habits, and then learn the new good ones; the beautiful news here is that the good tech habits are useful in rec-diving, so it makes sense to learn directly the right things
(I know what you are thinking because I and the majority of tech divers were thinking the same of you "ahah, but I know the right things!" - well, 99% of the times it isn't the case)
(2) people buy equipment that is simply wrong, and then they need to spend a massive amount of money to buy the right one.
How to avoid these two mistakes? Find a good instructor as soon as you can and do an intro-to-tech/fundamentals/extended-range-foundations/anything-similar course. You will learn the skills and drills the right way, you'll improve awareness, and you will get to know the equipment BEFORE you need to buy it (or, at least, you will be able to discuss the equipment with the instructor before buying)
NOTE: some divers with exceptionally good habits developed since the beginning of their career may skip these introductory courses. But you still need to assess your level with a GOOD tech instructor
POINT 2.1 - how to continue
In case you are interested in team diving, it is almost mandatory to find a good community of divers to share your hobby. If this is the case, look for them as soon as you can, and discuss with them to understand their path and their typical diving
POINT 3 - how to find a good instructor
A good instructor must have:
- exceptional skills/drills
- real diving experience
- good teaching skills
- a personality that fit your needs (in other words, you must feel at ease with him/her)
It is common agreement here on the forum that DIR agencies only have instructors with exceptional skills/drills and real diving experience (in my opinion good teaching skills too). But DIR agencies have some strict procedures, so you must like them. If you choose a DIR instructor, you still must ensure that you like the personality.
On the other hand, non-DIR agencies are less consistent in terms of skills/drills and real diving experience, s you must be careful when you choose an instructor; an option is to start from this forum (you already had some good tips), another one is to discuss with your future buddies.
In any case, it is a good idea to discuss with your future instruct before booking a course.
POINT 4 - and what about your LDS?
Well, just consider your LDS like an instructor. Discuss with other people, possibly with a lot of experience, and if it turns out that your LDS has very good instructors, why not go with them? But you must be sure of their quality, otherwise the risk is to spend a lot of time, money and energy to obtain a very poor result
FINAL REMARK
In the end, your ideas (to do the extended range course with your LDS and to buy the equipment you choose) might be good. But if I got it right, you may want to refine the process that brought you to your conclusion and see different options - you may end up finding better ideas.
Good luck, and have fun!
POINT 1 - diving goals
Everything starts here. You said that you want to do
but this is actually not enough. First of all, what are "deep" and "penetration"?
Deep needs to be quantified; for me, it is anything below 90m (even if I don't dive below 60m). And for you?
Penetration is a very vague word; do you want to go inside wrecks never explored before, or do you just want to have a swim inside a cabin from which you can see the sunlight?
Also, do you prefer solo or team diving?
There are other things to consider, but they are way more advanced (e.g. rebreather)
POINT 2 - how to start
Independently of your goal, all tech diving starts from solid foundations. That is:
- diving skills (especially buoyancy, trim, and finning techniques);
- drills (sharing gas, DSMB deployment, and valve-drill);
- awareness;
- knowledge of the equipment.
Now, two common issues are:
(1) people learn bad habits during their rec courses, so when they approach tech diving they first have to forget these bad habits, and then learn the new good ones; the beautiful news here is that the good tech habits are useful in rec-diving, so it makes sense to learn directly the right things
(I know what you are thinking because I and the majority of tech divers were thinking the same of you "ahah, but I know the right things!" - well, 99% of the times it isn't the case)(2) people buy equipment that is simply wrong, and then they need to spend a massive amount of money to buy the right one.
How to avoid these two mistakes? Find a good instructor as soon as you can and do an intro-to-tech/fundamentals/extended-range-foundations/anything-similar course. You will learn the skills and drills the right way, you'll improve awareness, and you will get to know the equipment BEFORE you need to buy it (or, at least, you will be able to discuss the equipment with the instructor before buying)
NOTE: some divers with exceptionally good habits developed since the beginning of their career may skip these introductory courses. But you still need to assess your level with a GOOD tech instructor
POINT 2.1 - how to continue
In case you are interested in team diving, it is almost mandatory to find a good community of divers to share your hobby. If this is the case, look for them as soon as you can, and discuss with them to understand their path and their typical diving
POINT 3 - how to find a good instructor
A good instructor must have:
- exceptional skills/drills
- real diving experience
- good teaching skills
- a personality that fit your needs (in other words, you must feel at ease with him/her)
It is common agreement here on the forum that DIR agencies only have instructors with exceptional skills/drills and real diving experience (in my opinion good teaching skills too). But DIR agencies have some strict procedures, so you must like them. If you choose a DIR instructor, you still must ensure that you like the personality.
On the other hand, non-DIR agencies are less consistent in terms of skills/drills and real diving experience, s you must be careful when you choose an instructor; an option is to start from this forum (you already had some good tips), another one is to discuss with your future buddies.
In any case, it is a good idea to discuss with your future instruct before booking a course.
POINT 4 - and what about your LDS?
Well, just consider your LDS like an instructor. Discuss with other people, possibly with a lot of experience, and if it turns out that your LDS has very good instructors, why not go with them? But you must be sure of their quality, otherwise the risk is to spend a lot of time, money and energy to obtain a very poor result
FINAL REMARK
In the end, your ideas (to do the extended range course with your LDS and to buy the equipment you choose) might be good. But if I got it right, you may want to refine the process that brought you to your conclusion and see different options - you may end up finding better ideas.
Good luck, and have fun!
@Kaneda13 - I think you’re getting some super advice here. Here’s my two cents.
When I started down the path past recreational diving, I felt I was spending a lot of time sorting through course options from various certifying organizations. It seemed like each course description and instructor option was going to unlock a new dimension only to find I would need to take another course to do something else. In my professional background, I was accustomed to skill training being a lot more comprehensive where I found SCUBA training to be rather disaggregated and instructor proficiency to be unpredictable.
So, with a great dive mentor I put together a training program to “see” how to fit courses into a comprehensive composite of skills and attributes.
It’s not perfect nor applicable to everyone but I offer it as an example to help map out your own framework and arrange course opportunities into digestible bins. Modification to suit your intentions and tastes is encouraged.
Have fun and enjoy the journey.
When I started down the path past recreational diving, I felt I was spending a lot of time sorting through course options from various certifying organizations. It seemed like each course description and instructor option was going to unlock a new dimension only to find I would need to take another course to do something else. In my professional background, I was accustomed to skill training being a lot more comprehensive where I found SCUBA training to be rather disaggregated and instructor proficiency to be unpredictable.
So, with a great dive mentor I put together a training program to “see” how to fit courses into a comprehensive composite of skills and attributes.
It’s not perfect nor applicable to everyone but I offer it as an example to help map out your own framework and arrange course opportunities into digestible bins. Modification to suit your intentions and tastes is encouraged.
Have fun and enjoy the journey.
OP
Kaneda13
Contributor
AWESOME post, and great questions that clearly indicate you know what you are talking about. I will do my best to answer what I can of your points.Hi @Kaneda13, I have a bit more time now, I hope that what I write can help you.
POINT 1 - diving goals
Everything starts here. You said that you want to do
but this is actually not enough. First of all, what are "deep" and "penetration"?
Deep needs to be quantified; for me, it is anything below 90m (even if I don't dive below 60m). And for you?
Penetration is a very vague word; do you want to go inside wrecks never explored before, or do you just want to have a swim inside a cabin from which you can see the sunlight?
Also, do you prefer solo or team diving?
There are other things to consider, but they are way more advanced (e.g. rebreather)
POINT 2 - how to start
Independently of your goal, all tech diving starts from solid foundations. That is:
- diving skills (especially buoyancy, trim, and finning techniques);
- drills (sharing gas, DSMB deployment, and valve-drill);
- awareness;
- knowledge of the equipment.
Now, two common issues are:
(1) people learn bad habits during their rec courses, so when they approach tech diving they first have to forget these bad habits, and then learn the new good ones; the beautiful news here is that the good tech habits are useful in rec-diving, so it makes sense to learn directly the right things
(2) people buy equipment that is simply wrong, and then they need to spend a massive amount of money to buy the right one.
How to avoid these two mistakes? Find a good instructor as soon as you can and do an intro-to-tech/fundamentals/extended-range-foundations/anything-similar course. You will learn the skills and drills the right way, you'll improve awareness, and you will get to know the equipment BEFORE you need to buy it (or, at least, you will be able to discuss the equipment with the instructor before buying)
NOTE: some divers with exceptionally good habits developed since the beginning of their career may skip these introductory courses. But you still need to assess your level with a GOOD tech instructor
POINT 2.1 - how to continue
In case you are interested in team diving, it is almost mandatory to find a good community of divers to share your hobby. If this is the case, look for them as soon as you can, and discuss with them to understand their path and their typical diving
POINT 3 - how to find a good instructor
A good instructor must have:
- exceptional skills/drills
- real diving experience
- good teaching skills
- a personality that fit your needs (in other words, you must feel at ease with him/her)
It is common agreement here on the forum that DIR agencies only have instructors with exceptional skills/drills and real diving experience (in my opinion good teaching skills too). But DIR agencies have some strict procedures, so you must like them. If you choose a DIR instructor, you still must ensure that you like the personality.
On the other hand, non-DIR agencies are less consistent in terms of skills/drills and real diving experience, s you must be careful when you choose an instructor; an option is to start from this forum (you already had some good tips), another one is to discuss with your future buddies.
In any case, it is a good idea to discuss with your future instruct before booking a course.
POINT 4 - and what about your LDS?
Well, just consider your LDS like an instructor. Discuss with other people, possibly with a lot of experience, and if it turns out that your LDS has very good instructors, why not go with them? But you must be sure of their quality, otherwise the risk is to spend a lot of time, money and energy to obtain a very poor result
FINAL REMARK
In the end, your ideas (to do the extended range course with your LDS and to buy the equipment you choose) might be good. But if I got it right, you may want to refine the process that brought you to your conclusion and see different options - you may end up finding better ideas.
Good luck, and have fun!
Point 1: Deep to me would be beyond recreational limits, so let's say beyond 50m and up to 70m. As for ship penetration, "swim throughs" are stepping stone for me, I want to dive into the core of the ship, be it explored or not, but certainly more that just "swim throughs." No visible path to the outside is part of the thrill for what I refer to as ship penetration, and this is what I'm looking for. While I plan on working up to my independent diver, I don't plan on actual solo diving (much, if at all). I look at it as a training step to get me a safe, reliable and confident in myself as possible.
Point 2: All very good points, and I am talking with my LDS and the other members who dive with them about finding a good instructor to take me beyond what they offer. I have no mis-conceptions that I have "bad habits" when it comes to tech diving, I'm simply to new to this to begin to thing I'm already qualified to start hitting the advanced courses. While I certainly strive to do/be the best that I can, I am FULLY aware I still have lots to learn, and some things to "un-learn".
Point 3: Yes, see some of my comments in Point 2.
Point 4: I have extreme confidence in my LDS. My girlfriend has been diving for years (considerable more experience than I), and she also feels very comfortable with them. During both dives and on trips, if things have gone sideways, I have had the up-most confidence in both ability to handle not only the situation, but the group and a whole to keep things in check. My LDS has a lot of connections around the world, and has repeatedly offered to link me up with other trainers depending on where I am going, and what my expectations are.
FINAL: Absolutely! I had bought all my gear prior to my open water, because I want to learn on the equipment that I will be using for the perceivable future. I understand COMPLETELY this comes with the caveat that as my expectations and desire change, so will my needs from my gear. I have been, and still am, EXTREMELY happy with the gear I originally purchased, and may even be passing it down to my son whom is taking his try scuba class later this month. While I'm not in a financial position to randomly buy whatever is is I want, I have positioned myself in my career where I am comfortable replacing my jacket with a backplate/wings already, because I am aware that what I expected of my gear, has changed since I first hit the water, and if my expectations of my "new" gear change as I develop, that I am prepared to continue to make changes as a financially responsible rate, while still being safe.
OP
Kaneda13
Contributor
I have the Hollis equivalent and like that style harness as its easier to get in and out of. My wife has a single web harness and tore her shoulder muscle trying to get in and out of that style.
Who are you going to dive with? Tec diving is NOT a solo sport and I'm only willing to tec dive with a select set of trusted friends, in contrast to recreational where I'll dive with pretty much anyone.
For classes, independent diver is an outstanding complement to tec diving. Not that you'll tec dive solo, but all the solo skills are essential to tec diving and the equipment can be the same. There is a massive equipment change with tec and rather than wasting my instructor and team's time getting my gear sorted, I went solo diving and got everything tuned to my liking.
The way I read it
Extended Range Fundamentals will get you comfortable in tec gear and show you how to configure it
Extended Range Nitrox adds deco and decompressing on up to 100% O2
Extended Range adds depth and helium to handle narcosis
While air only is an option for extended range I strongly recommend against it. It's far better to pay the extra cost to use helium in class and from then on have the option rather than have to repeat the class to get helium. For example, I took I took advanced nitrox / helitrox and am allowed to add helium when I want to pay for it. My wife took advanced nitrox / deco procedures which was same amount of training and cost other than actual helium, but she is not allowed to use helium and will have to pay for trimix course before she can use helium.
Sam
Who are you going to dive with? Tec diving is NOT a solo sport and I'm only willing to tec dive with a select set of trusted friends, in contrast to recreational where I'll dive with pretty much anyone.
For classes, independent diver is an outstanding complement to tec diving. Not that you'll tec dive solo, but all the solo skills are essential to tec diving and the equipment can be the same. There is a massive equipment change with tec and rather than wasting my instructor and team's time getting my gear sorted, I went solo diving and got everything tuned to my liking.
The way I read it
Extended Range Fundamentals will get you comfortable in tec gear and show you how to configure it
Extended Range Nitrox adds deco and decompressing on up to 100% O2
Extended Range adds depth and helium to handle narcosis
While air only is an option for extended range I strongly recommend against it. It's far better to pay the extra cost to use helium in class and from then on have the option rather than have to repeat the class to get helium. For example, I took I took advanced nitrox / helitrox and am allowed to add helium when I want to pay for it. My wife took advanced nitrox / deco procedures which was same amount of training and cost other than actual helium, but she is not allowed to use helium and will have to pay for trimix course before she can use helium.
Sam
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