Ethical views??? looking for a little insight

[TopherMcKenzie]

Hey Everyone,

I am new to the forum and not sure where to post this but I thought this is a good start.

I am looking at some ethical views of diving and a more specifically more along wreck diving. I am writing a college paper on this subject and am looking to have some peoples personal view points. some of the questions I have asked are:

do you think that it is ethical to dive into a old are ship and disturb the gave of those sailors? What are the view points of taking items from these ships? are they for personal gain or historical gain? does it even matter?

I am arguing both sides of this topic. so any insight or direction where to look up info would be greatly helpful.

thank you everyone in advance.

Chris

 

[SeaCobra]

You may want to try reading Shadow Divers, it gives some insight on this subject

 

[waterpirate]

Chris,
This is one of those topics that falls under "don't ask-don't tell" I doubt you will get any real feedback here other than chest thumping. Maritime wrecks are just that, wrecks. Wrecks have fatalities and things to see as well as salvage. If someone you know piles up their car on the way to work and perishes, he insurance company sells what is left of the car to reclaim losses, maybe help others who need parts. I look at ship wrecks the same way.

Where this should be focussed is on wrecks that are "declared war graves". This will produce even stronger feelings and is where I start to waffle and question my "moral compass". In short the peope who do, will never tell you here, fearing the $hit storm or procution along with some persecution.
Eric
Put the paper up when you finish, I would like to read your findings.

 

[Ste Wart]

Hey Everyone,

I am new to the forum and not sure where to post this but I thought this is a good start.

I am looking at some ethical views of diving and a more specifically more along wreck diving. I am writing a college paper on this subject and am looking to have some peoples personal view points. some of the questions I have asked are:

do you think that it is ethical to dive into a old are ship and disturb the gave of those sailors? What are the view points of taking items from these ships? are they for personal gain or historical gain? does it even matter?

I am arguing both sides of this topic. so any insight or direction where to look up info would be greatly helpful.

thank you everyone in advance.

Chris

Have a look at this link: HMS Repulse • Diving into British Naval History • ADVANCED DIVER MAGAZINE • Text by Greg Doyle (my former bosses are pictured as well!)

The Repulse is a recognised War Grave. However that only restricts British citizens, namely me, from diving the wreck. None of the guys pictured are breaking any laws, but questions of respect. That is different.

Personally my favourite dive is the SS Yongala, which has visible human remains (well when I dived in 02 anyway). Never really bothered me, in fact it leads to intrigue and mystery.

Ask me if you should take things from those wrecks, then no. Let the dead lie.

I fairly biased as I study Maritime Archaeology.

 

[SeaCobra]

First and foremost, the local laws and regulations must be obeyed. This is one of the things that gives an honest wreck diver a bad name. There are a few that pillage wrecks in protected waters and we should throw the book at them.

However, retrieving artifacts from an abandoned shipwreck not in protected waters, such as my region off the coast of New Jersey, is legal, acceptable and in my opinion encouraged. Should a grave be disturbed? No. But is the wreck a grave?

 

[Ste Wart]

But is the wreck a grave?

As a legal definition? Not really. In the UK with have the Protection Of Military Remains Act 1986, which supposedly, encompasses all military war wrecks since the outbreak of WW I, in actuality this extends to only 67 wrecks, the majority of which are in UK waters.

In terms of maritime law? No a wreck is not a grave

The view of War Veterans and Familiies? To them, and others, yes it is a grave.

 

[Wookie]

As was stated above, the laws of the land must me enforced. It is incumbent upon the charter operator as well as the expedition leader (if it is indeed, an expedition) to know these laws, understand them, and enforce them upon the participants. I personally think that what lies on the bottom in salt water is junk, and recovery is a bit like dumpster picking, but some folks love to dive in the dumpster. If a wreck is a known war grave, as an operator, I won't even dive on it. If it was a merchantman, I don't get quite so excited about whether to dive it or not.

 

[John Larsen]

I am not a wreck diver other than the wrecks that have been sunk to make atrificial reefs and those are cleaned out beforehand, But my view point as a diver would be to take only pictures and leave the artifacts and remains for the next generation of divers to see, my view on if a wreck is a grave site or not I would say in my opinion if there are human remains on it it is a grave but that doesnt man you should not dive it just respect it.

 

[randy88k5]

But my view point as a diver would be to take only pictures and leave the artifacts and remains for the next generation of divers to see...

I agree with this logic with most sports, but not completely with salt water wreck diving. Most shipwrecks within a reasonable boat ride from the shore are also usually in maritime shipping lanes. The wrecks are dragged or blown up to keep the profile low as to not be a hazard. Then there are hurricanes and other natural forces. Most of these wrecks last about 50 years or so before they are unrecognizable pile of debris. If someone was to take, for example, a porthole, off of one of these wrecks. They clean it up, restore it, and display it proudly at their house, or donate it to a maritime museum. I don't see a problem with this, within reason, of course.

 

[JayJudge]

I'll voice my opinion, as for war graves, I see no reason not to dive the wrecksite. Do you stay out of battlefields/cemetaries? As for those on here that live in Europe, just driving or walking near Ypres/Somme/Verdun- where thousands are still MIA from World War One, means you are doing the exact same thing as diving on a 'war grave.' I would think the same could be said of London, as I would assume some of the citizens were vaporized during the Blitz. Does that make it a place not to visit?
BTW- to the OP- before writing this paper, you may want to proofread, as I am not sure what "disturb the gave of those sailors?" means. Sorry, was seeming too serious of a post....