equipment configuration

[jo8243]

I just started reading this thread and I can't believe what risk-takers some people are. Going to 200' on air! Doing deco recreational dives on one tank! Not allowing any room for problems in their dive planning! Heck, doing deco recreational dives at all. Why??? Sure, you might get away with it, but this type of activity will catch up to you sooner or later. Mother nature's lessons can be harsh.

 

[voop]

jo8243 once bubbled...
I just started reading this thread and I can't believe what risk-takers some people are. Going to 200' on air! Doing deco recreational dives on one tank! Not allowing any room for problems in their dive planning! Heck, doing deco recreational dives at all. Why??? Sure, you might get away with it, but this type of activity will catch up to you sooner or later. Mother nature's lessons can be harsh.

Well.....I am not really sure what you mean here, but......I'm gonna respond anyways since I do "deep on air on a single tank" from time to time...

With a moderate SAC and a big tank (as mentioned, I drag around an 18 litre 200 bar thing) one can easilly exceed the artificial so-called "no deco limits" -- even on a nice and shallow dive (and "every dive is a deco dive", btw, hence "artificial so-called no deco limits"...)

*Moderate* deco requirements are not a bad or dangerous thing, assuming that one knows how to do maintain a stop depth for deco, has enough gas to do so and know what to do should things go wrong. That's really all that's required.

As I believe I have mentioned before, the std. tables for (one of) the recreational agency(-ies) that I am certified through go to -65m, and include (conservative) deco stops. In part in acknowledgement that "every dive is a deco dive". Of course, the training for that agency involves "interrupted deco" procedures etc. as well, but that's not all that hard either. It's part of the training from the moment dive-students start using the tables. And it's not a tech-agency....

Having enough gas (for me, that's a big tank), knowing how to calculate gas requirements, redundancy (for me, a H-valve w. 2 first-stages..) and training to deal with deco....not that hard, and not dangerous either. And definitely not risky either.

I am not a "risk taker" myself, and I think that in the past year, most, if not all, of my dives have been moderate deco dives, following the abovementioned procedures. Some have been deep (aprox. 50m -- that's where I start noticing being narc'ed) and short, others shallow and long. And all perfectly safe.

(if I plan on going deep and I can get the gas, I usually bring a deco bottle with EANx50 or greater -- and deco as if I was on air. However it's not always available, and air is a perfectly nice breathing gas, as a matter of fact, I am breathing it right as I write this with no ill effects )

...and here's the kick: since I have not been paid for my diving activities, they're all purely recreational dives

All that said, if one just "rides the computer", not knowing how to deal with interrupted deco or how to get safely out of the water if the computer fails, going deep with a single AL72 and a single reg, then yes...that is asking for troubles.

However I do not believe that anyone has advocated for doing so in this thread?

 

[jo8243]

This is a paraphrased quote from the "deep diving" section of the PADI adventure diver book: "Exceeding 130 feet with a single tank is just plain stupid".

 

[Genesis]

I just started reading this thread and I can't believe what risk-takers some people are..... doing deco recreational dives at all. Why??? Sure, you might get away with it, but this type of activity will catch up to you sooner or later. Mother nature's lessons can be harsh.

What's wrong with decompression? You're doing it NOW if you're diving.

Oh sure, you're doing it on the shore/boat, but you're doing it. The PADI-style mentality that you're doing a "no deco" dive is what's dangerous.

ALL diving is decompression diving. The only difference is WHERE you do that decompression. Incurring a mandatory-stop obligation means you must have enough redundancy to complete it in the water or you get hurt (or worse) - that's all.

The agency views of today are what's dangerous. Teaching people to FEAR decompression rather than to understand that it is an INHERENT part of diving to ANY depth for ANY amount of time, and how to deal with the risks that you accept as the ceiling comes down from "0 fsw", is IMHO a huge disservice to the diving community.

People who should/do know better - like instructors - are even worse.

 

[beche de mer]

Bullcrap. That's all the comment this moronic statement deserves.
MD

Thanks for your comment MD. A useful contribution as always.

I'm not trying to tell you that the way this wreck is dived is ideal. But that's the way it's done every day. And people have been doing it that way for the last 10 years or more. Surely somebody reading this thread has dived it.

It's on an angle. The bows are at 25m. The stern is at 60m+. The tour may or may not include the stern. But if it does, you don't hang around. A quick look in the rudder, a quick dip in the swimming pool on the poop deck, and then a gradual ascent toward the bows.

You don't expect to deco on the gas you're carrying. And yes, the rule of thirds goes out the window.

If you don't like the sound of it, stay away.

If you want to know more, look here:

http://www.vanuatutourism.com/Aquamarine.htm

And here's a testimonial:

http://www.michaelmcfadyenscuba.info/articles/bestever.htm

(McFadyen's group were using twins. Nobody had them when I was there.)

 

[voop]

Thanks for your comment MD. A useful contribution as always.

I'm not trying to tell you that the way this wreck is dived is ideal. But that's the way it's done every day. And people have been doing it that way for the last 10 years or more. Surely somebody reading this thread has dived it.

It's on an angle. The bows are at 25m. The stern is at 60m+. The tour may or may not include the stern. But if it does, you don't hang around. A quick look in the rudder, a quick dip in the swimming pool on the poop deck, and then a gradual ascent toward the bows.

You don't expect to deco on the gas you're carrying. And yes, the rule of thirds goes out the window.

Actually, from my personal perspective, there is only one thing wrong with the procedure you describe. And I am not sure if that's the procedure or me there's something wrong with

I am basically too "paranoid" to do any dives where I do not carry enough gas to reach the surface. The "do deco on gas you have to find somewhere" just makes me uncomfortable...reading "The Last Dive" just added to my conviction that "looking around for your deco gas" may not always be a good thing, especially not when narc'ed at depth.....

However it does seem like a *cool* wreck -- would love to dive it one day, but seeing that I am paranoid, I'd probably bring the twin-set...

 

[voop]

This is a paraphrased quote from the "deep diving" section of the PADI adventure diver book: "Exceeding 130 feet with a single tank is just plain stupid".

"Exceeding 130 feet without propper training and equipment is just plain stupid" -- is probably more correct. However that is also a message which requires quite some more explanation (what is "propper training and equipment"??), and as such may not work welll in the PADI "Adventures in diving" context (which is to introduce various areas of diving, without doing into "depth" with each area - pun intended).

 

[SeaJay]

Beche, the first link you posted mentioned the wreck, but made no mention of using a single AL80 for the dive.

The second link specifically said this:

"Normally everyone carries twin tanks but certainly some have down it on singles. People who take single tanks usually need to use the spare tanks or share from a person who is carrying twins for a few minutes while at the deco stop."

Additionally, you said that the ship was at an angle... And that the bow was at less than 100 feet. Is it not logical that someone diving the wreck on a single tank might be visiting the bow only?

Nowhere in the "testimonials" that you spoke of did I read "using a single AL80 to dive to 200 feet and spend 20 minutes."

 

[d33ps1x]

How old are you? Are you using your fathers Scubaboard account?

 

[beche de mer]

Nowhere in the "testimonials" that you spoke of did I read "using a single AL80 to dive to 200 feet and spend 20 minutes."

If you read the thread, I don't believe I suggested that you'd spend 20 minutes mooching around at 60m on a single tank. But I can assure you that people (myself included) were descending to the stern on a single tank and then taking a leisurely tour on their way up toward the bow. Elapsed time, descent to bow, 15-20 minutes. And then you'd do your half hour deco after that.

I really couldn't give a flying **** whether you believe me or not. The McFadyen group were using doubles. We were using singles.

I'm merely telling you what the practice was when I was there in February 1999. As a point of interest. No particular agenda. Take it or leave it.

Now that I'm a little older and wiser, I probably would not do it that way again. But I certainly don't regret doing the dives.

If you really want to know, talk to someone else who's been there or go and take a look yourself.