Environmental Police

[PAdiver93]

If this is so, that they can just walk up and start searching your stuff without so much as a "how-de-do", then it has to be something you sign off on in your lobstering licence, because it sure as heck is a re-make of the interpretation of "searchs under color of authority" as defined by the United States Supreme Court.

EVEN if you sign off on your lobstering license - they are still violating your const. rights. And BTW some courts have extended the Plain View Doctrine to plain Touch - but no playing (seriously) with it doctrine.

 

[BigJetDriver]

MAN, I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE YOU TESTIFY AT ANY OF MY SUPPRESSION HEARINGS! ALL OF MY CLIENTS WOULD BE FREE! Anyway - here is the story - NO, NO, NO they can not search your car! You have a reasonable, albeit dwindling thanx to the Supreme Court expectation of privacy. Police/DEP officer does NOT need a probable cause or reasonable suspicion (which is less than PC) to ASK for consent. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO CONSENT! - No reprocussions! In cars there are some exceptions to unlawful searches that are warrantless.

PA,

Somehow I doubt that ALL of your clients would go free, unless all of them were as innocent as the driven snow!

You are quite correct that an officer does not need either (1) probable cause, or even (2) reasonable suspicion to ASK. I have done so on a hunch, and, after receiving permission, have come up with weapons and drugs. Truly amazing!

However, what we were talking about was actual searches of items (in one case) in a vehicle, without officers either identifying themselves, or obtaining consent. I have to tell you, if that is legal in Massachusetts, they sure have redefined the laws up there!

 

[mbear295]

PA,

Somehow I doubt that ALL of your clients would go free, unless all of them were as innocent as the driven snow!

You are quite correct that an officer does not need either (1) probable cause, or even (2) reasonable suspicion to ASK. I have done so on a hunch, and, after receiving permission, have come up with weapons and drugs. Truly amazing!

However, what we were talking about was actual searches of items (in one case) in a vehicle, without officers either identifying themselves, or obtaining consent. I have to tell you, if that is legal in Massachusetts, they sure have redefined the laws up there!

Hey yall, thought I would put my to cents in. I am a police officer in Louisiana (sportsman’s paradise). My question is what government agency do the EP police fall under. We have no such thing down here. As far regular law enforcement, you do need proper PC, but when it comes to our Wildlife and Fisheries Agents/Game Wardens, it a different story. check this out www.rodnreel.com/smithatlaw/html/reel_law.html I have read some of the house bills and resolutions, regarding the Wildlife and Fisheries, it seems they have a lot more room to move compared to us beat cops. I guess it depends on each state, on how they handle legal situations though. MASS, could be totally different.

P.S. I wouldn’t make the game wardens to mad down here, not many witnesses on the bayou.

 

[Goose75]

I've been told that even here in Texas, Game Wardens have unprecedented powers of search and seizure. I took a quick search of the code to find what power they really have in the Parks and Wildlife Code.

"§ 12.104. RIGHT TO SEARCH AND INSPECT. (a) A game
warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may
search a game bag, vehicle, vessel, or other receptacle if the game
warden or peace officer has a reasonable, articulable suspicion
that the game bag, vehicle, vessel, or receptacle contains a
wildlife resource that has been unlawfully killed or taken.
(b) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the
department may inspect a wildlife resource or a part or product of a
wildlife resource that is discovered during a search under
Subsection (a) of this section...."

I'm sure all the states have something simlar or Game wardens would be useless. It's the reasonable suspicion that is the sticking point. Is being in a hunting ground with the proper gear reasonable suspicion? Is running behind a bush when the Waren's shos up suspicious? I'm sure most judges would agree looking into a truck bed or window of a vehicle is acceptable but physically searching random unattended vehicles is not "reasonable". Of coarse there are some stray judges who don't seem to know the law of the land but that's what appeals are for. I'm sure the EPs who are conducting random searches are counting on your unwillingness to spend lots of time and money to put a stop to it.

 

[mbear295]

I've been told that even here in Texas, Game Wardens have unprecedented powers of search and seizure. I took a quick search of the code to find what power they really have in the Parks and Wildlife Code.

"§ 12.104. RIGHT TO SEARCH AND INSPECT. (a) A game
warden or other peace officer commissioned by the department may
search a game bag, vehicle, vessel, or other receptacle if the game
warden or peace officer has a reasonable, articulable suspicion
that the game bag, vehicle, vessel, or receptacle contains a
wildlife resource that has been unlawfully killed or taken.
(b) A game warden or other peace officer commissioned by the
department may inspect a wildlife resource or a part or product of a
wildlife resource that is discovered during a search under
Subsection (a) of this section...."

I'm sure all the states have something simlar or Game wardens would be useless. It's the reasonable suspicion that is the sticking point. Is being in a hunting ground with the proper gear reasonable suspicion? Is running behind a bush when the Waren's shos up suspicious? I'm sure most judges would agree looking into a truck bed or window of a vehicle is acceptable but physically searching random unattended vehicles is not "reasonable". Of coarse there are some stray judges who don't seem to know the law of the land but that's what appeals are for. I'm sure the EPs who are conducting random searches are counting on your unwillingness to spend lots of time and money to put a stop to it.

Reasonable suspicion is the easiest thing to prove in the court of law! I called a friend who is a game warden. He told that, they can board your boat at any time for a safety inspection and check for proper licensing, at witch time they can check your ice chests etc for illegal game. Also he did say it would be out of line, to check an empty boat. They would have to wait for you to return to your boat or vehicle.

 

[ScubaNorth]

I am fairly sure they know the law and operate within it, but maybe right at the outer edge. Keep in mind GOOD law enforcement is about being seen, it's like a marketing campaign. You see a trooper on the shoulder and you? Slow down, check seat belt etc. If a cheat sees the Fish Police in the Harbour lot well I bet he won't have any undersized lobsters, etc when he gets back. It is the stealth stuff that sits badly with me, these are the wanna be's out there. They are the super troopers who are not respected by anyone. You can tell someone who takes their job seriously and is diligent vs. some shmuck that is getting off on his tiny bit of authority. Be polite, friendly, and straight with them and all should end well.

 

[Turk6482]

Hey Guys (And Girls),

Ok, just finished ready this tread and got a little interested in this debate. I myself am a Police Sergeant and know, as others have already stated, what I need to search something/ someone.

I just made a call to someone I know at the E.P. office and they are having an Officer call me back today either at my office or on my cell. I have also called another friend who is a lawyer and expect he'll get back to me after court this afternoon.

Hopefully I'll have an answer for everyone soon, including myself.

As a side note, I do know they (The E.P.) have the most auth. in Mass.

Stay tuned ............

Stephen

 

[Turk6482]

OK Here it is and no one will be happy. A little surprised myself but it's right out of the law books. I got antsy and could not wait for the E.P to call me. Took some searching but this is what I found.........

GENERAL LAWS OF MASSACHUSETTS
PART I.
ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT

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TITLE XIX.
AGRICULTURE AND CONSERVATION

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CHAPTER 130. MARINE FISH AND FISHERIES


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MISCELLANEOUS POWERS AND DUTIES OF DIRECTOR, COASTAL WARDENS, ETC.
Chapter 130: Section 9 Searches, seizures and arrests without warrant

Section 9. The director, the deputy directors of enforcement, chiefs of enforcement, deputy chiefs of enforcement and all environmental police officers and deputy environmental police officers or a member of the state police may, without a warrant, search any boat, vessel, fish car, bag, box, locker, package, crate, any building other than a dwelling house, any motor vehicle as defined in section one of chapter ninety, or other vehicle, or any other personal property in which he has reasonable cause to believe, and does believe, that fish taken, held, kept, possessed, transported or held for transportation or sale in violation of law, may be found, and may seize any such fish there found, and may seize any boat, vessel, fish car, bag, box, locker, package, crate, any motor vehicle as defined in section one of chapter ninety, or other vehicle, or any other personal property used in a violation of the laws relative to marine fisheries and hold the same for forfeiture.

Any such person or officer may arrest without a warrant any person found violating any provision of this chapter or of any ordinance, rule or regulation made under authority thereof, or any other provision of law relative to marine fisheries.

Now as a police officer, I would think they (The E.P. ) would at least Identify themselves first and then search but what can I say.......... Hope this helps the question of 'Can they do that"

Stephen

 

[matt_unique]

I have heard this before but here it is in black and white. Don't do anything illegal and in most cases we are all set

--Matt

 

[johlar]

I have heard this before but here it is in black and white. Don't do anything illegal and in most cases we are all set

--Matt

I emailed the Mass EP yesterday and they did in fact respond. So kudoes (sp) to them for being responsive. Here's the reply which is basically a reapeat of what was said earlier:

John,

Thank you for your question.

CHAPTER 130 Sec. 9

Environmental Police Officers and members of the State Police may without a warrant, search any boat, vessel, fish car, bag, box, locker, package, crate, any building other than a dwelling house, any motor vehicle as defined in section one of Chapter 90, or other vehicle, or any other personal property in which he has reasonable cause to believe, and does believe, that fish taken, held kept, possessed, transported or held for transportation or sale.

Thi sis only part of the statute. Hopefully this answers your question.

Major Arduini

So in order for them to search they must have a reasonable belief that I'm breaking the law in order to search.