entry level light recommendations for wide angle video on a compact?

[afieldofblue]

Hello everyone,
I'm looking into upgrading my new setup (currently an old Lumix TZ10), and will probably be getting another compact (such as the RX 100 M2) or eventually a Go Pro Hero 4 Black, to shoot wide angle video (schools of fish, around 20 meters or so).

I'm currently looking into entry level video lights with a wide enough beam to improve what I'm filming.

So far, in a budget price range ( less than say $300), I've found the following:

Archon DV11 (860 lumen, 110° beam angle)

Light and Motion Sidekick Duo (600 lumen, 90° beam angle)

iTorch Venusian III (800 lumen, 100° beam angle)

Advice and informed opinion much appreciated!

ben

 

[CT-Rich]

I have a Mini-Sea Dragon 600 that cost me only $100 at my LDS. Has 600 lumen with a 120 degree arch.

 

[JohnnyC]

Dive Gear Express has their own line of lights. They offer a video light w/battery and charger for $50. 120 degrees, 600 OTF lumens.

https://www.divegearexpress.com/dgx-max-video-handheld-light

It will actually be brighter than the Archon as the "860 lumens" of the Archon light won't be out-the-front. It uses the XM-L LED, whereas the DGX one uses the XM-L2, and honestly reports their lumen output, not just what the die is rated at.

Same with the iTorch, XM-L. Again, they aren't reporting out-the-front lumens.

I've got an Archon DV11, and I like it. If the DGX ones had been out I would have bought those instead. Still might.

 

[pinshootr]

light and motion camera tray and light combo on sale for 399 two 700 lumen lights tray and mounts

 

[afieldofblue]

Thanks for all this info.
I've been reading up on the subject, and some people suggest that under the tropics I'd need at least 3000 lumen to make a difference.

I'm thinking about situations like this here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMttY7u9B-I

I'm at roughly 17 m, and have no artificial light source. Would an 800 lumen light (or even a pair) really make a difference in such a situation
- or is this just not enough, and I should be considering, as others have suggested, getting a filter instead (I have manual WB on the TZ10)?

Not sure if a filter would really change anything at this depth, and I'm happy with the natural light color balance I'm getting shallower (eg:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os78FfdIxHQ )

Then lights like this here
W40VR
https://www.archonlight.co.uk/Archo...er-camera-light

announced at 2600 lumen for 120°, do seem tempting at less then 200 euro, but there must be a catch somewhere, right?


Thanks

ben

 

[EL Pistoffo]

Thanks for all this info.
I've been reading up on the subject, and some people suggest that under the tropics I'd need at least 3000 lumen to make a difference.

I'm thinking about situations like this here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMttY7u9B-I

I'm at roughly 17 m, and have no artificial light source. Would an 800 lumen light (or even a pair) really make a difference in such a situation
- or is this just not enough, and I should be considering, as others have suggested, getting a filter instead (I have manual WB on the TZ10)?

Not sure if a filter would really change anything at this depth, and I'm happy with the natural light color balance I'm getting shallower (eg:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os78FfdIxHQ )

Then lights like this here
W40VR
https://www.archonlight.co.uk/Archo...er-camera-light

announced at 2600 lumen for 120°, do seem tempting at less then 200 euro, but there must be a catch somewhere, right?


Thanks

ben

IMO, there is no substitute for a filter in clear tropical water with ambient light. Unless your compact camera can handle manual WB at depths (beyond shallow), you'll benefit greatly from a red filter. My Panasonic LX7 could not satisfactorily WB at depth without the filter. Once I slapped one one it worked like a charm. Depending on what your intention is with the lights will determine what you need. If its for close ups or night use, you could do with the a pair of light in the 600-1000 lumen range. If you want it instead of a filter then go with as much as you can afford because you will probably never have enough. Lights can't compete with the sun past a several feet or so.

 

[tursiops]

Then lights like this here W40VR
https://www.archonlight.co.uk/Archo...er-camera-light
announced at 2600 lumen for 120°, do seem tempting at less then 200 euro, but there must be a catch somewhere, right?

Yes, the catch is two-fold: honest, realistic statements of total lumens, and how much area all those lumens are spread out over. Mfgs do not usually state the lux, which is how bright the beam is within a specific area. Same lumens, more beam spread, fewer lux. Your pictures care about lux, so long as you've got enough coverage to light up the scene.

SOLA is honest about their lumen ratings. I have a 1200 lumen SOLA with a beam spread of 60 degrees. W40VR at 2600 lumens is spreading its light over 120 degrees, so twice the spread but four times the coverage area....thus will be comparable to my SOLA at about half power.

First, you need to figure out what kind of beam width you need....and you might be better off with two weaker lights pointed so as to cover the width of the scene.
Then, you need to have enough light to recolor your scene (from all the color lost by the sunlight passing through water). Any will help, more is better. The most important thing is to get close...because being 1m away is 4 times as bright as being 2m away.

The 90 degree SOLA sidekick at 600 (honest) lumens is probably brighter than a non-SOLA 1200 lumen light with a 120 degree beam angle. I suspect it is plenty good enough for fish portraits and closer. And 90 degrees will cover your scene unless you are shooting super wide-angle.

 

[DomScotland]

I ve got 2x Archon D11V and this is how they works in cold Scottish water [video=youtube;eF1OlZbnypg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF1OlZbnypg[/video]
from 3:56 you can see Archons and my Gopro tray from distance filmed by my buddy

have a look at Light For me 3XPG MINI video
looks really good price-performance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPDEHFAIuTA

 

[afieldofblue]

That's very helpful guys, thanks for the info.

Regarding the filter, the TZ10 has manual white balance, and I have white/grey/black cards that I can use at depth. I haven't really played around with white balance so far, as I was shooting pictures mostly until the last trip and was adjusting things in post, which worked fine.

Next trip is Raja Ampat, so tropical waters, plankton, and often overcast. And I like to see fish hunting so dives in the early morning or late afternoon, when light isn't the brightest, and most othe action is in the lest say 15 to 20 meter range (50 ft)

Situations like this here are rather typical. I'm filming on a reef hook, at 17 meters or so:




This rush above is really the kind of setting, in the 10 to 20 meter (30ft to 60ft) that I'd like to try to improve with lighting, but I'm not really sure if it's realistic.

Would you say sticking on a filter would help in this clip here, or in a similar situation?



In shallower waters on the other hand, I'm happy with the color balance I'm getting, for example this in the 10 meter zone (30 ft)



or even, snorkelling, in the 5 meter zone (15ft)




I could get a magic filter, not a big investment but I don't like the idea of not being able to remove at the end of the dive for instance, in the shallows.

Clip on filters would be cool, but for the old panasonic MC-TZ10 housing would mean an inon M67 adapter (around $300) + the filter, so not ideal.

Otherwise there's this offer here:
https://www.aditech-usa.com/en/shop...8-5-38-614.html
but I don't know what the filter's worth.

On the type of lights I need, I'd like to film in the kind of tropical environment mentioned, and that would be rather wide angle, the lense having the equivalent of a 25mm focal, schools of fish in the 10 to 20 meter (30ft to 60ft), most of the action being around 15m (50ft)

thanks!

ben

 

[EL Pistoffo]

That's very helpful guys, thanks for the info. Regarding the filter, the TZ10 has manual white balance, and I have white/grey/black cards that I can use at depth. I haven't really played around with white balance so far, as I was shooting pictures mostly until the last trip and was adjusting things in post, which worked fine. Next trip is Raja Ampat, so tropical waters, plankton, and often overcast. And I like to see fish hunting so dives in the early morning or late afternoon, when light isn't the brightest, and most othe action is in the lest say 15 to 20 meter range (50 ft) Situations like this here are rather typical. I'm filming on a reef hook, at 17 meters or so:This rush above is really the kind of setting, in the 10 to 20 meter (30ft to 60ft) that I'd like to try to improve with lighting, but I'm not really sure if it's realistic.Would you say sticking on a filter would help in this clip here, or in a similar situation?In shallower waters on the other hand, I'm happy with the color balance I'm getting, for example this in the 10 meter zone (30 ft)or even, snorkelling, in the 5 meter zone (15ft)I could get a magic filter, not a big investment but I don't like the idea of not being able to remove at the end of the dive for instance, in the shallows. Clip on filters would be cool, but for the old panasonic MC-TZ10 housing would mean an inon M67 adapter (around $300) + the filter, so not ideal. Otherwise there's this offer here: https://www.aditech-usa.com/en/shop...8-5-38-614.html but I don't know what the filter's worth. On the type of lights I need, I'd like to film in the kind of tropical environment mentioned, and that would be rather wide angle, the lense having the equivalent of a 25mm focal, schools of fish in the 10 to 20 meter (30ft to 60ft), most of the action being around 15m (50ft)thanks!ben

I own a SZ20/TZ30. This series of camera has small sensor and slow lens, not a good low-light performer compared to the larger, better compacts (RX100, LX7). Using the better compacts allows you to get away with more when using a filter.

Regarding the filter I use a mangrove m67 threaded filter from Aditech so I know it's good. Your link didnt seem to work right for me since it just took me to Aditechs main page.


With the 1st video you posted, I'm not sure how a filter would perform. At depth, the amount of water (distance) between you and subject will impact the effectiveness and WB though to a lesser degree than with just lights (unless extremely powerful possibly). A good camera would make the biggest difference here. I'm not sure if going with strong lights or filter would be better in this situation. Lights would work when the schooling fish when they come close. By the looks of this video it doesn't seem like either is being used.
With my expereince with the Archon D11V, only the fish in the closest proximity would be well lit. they don't have a lot of punch. A pair of Sola 1200 would be better but they are much bigger bucks.


The 2nd video has good color. 30ft is usually not a problem in good water. Filter also perform very effectively here. Surprisingly, my camera has difficulty manual WB at this depth without a filter.


3rd video in shallows can be handled by most any camera.


I like having the m67 filter because I can remove it if needed. I just used it at 90ft a few weeks ago and it worked well but I do have a camera with a much faster (brighter) lens than the TZ10. The magic filter is pretty good from what I've heard but the gel insert does present a challenge. Most cameras should be able to manual WB with a filter even when pretty shallow. I've done it at 15ft.


Whats holding you back the most is your camera I think. A RX100m2 (Filter is recommended for good color) would be a great upgrade and paired with a decent housing with a 67mm port you'd have lots more flexibility plus handle the early morning and late afternoon lighting conditions better. The GoPro would be nice too because it has very wide angle, use a red filter and can shoot in RAW WB that can be corrected in post. The IQ may get noisy in lower light conditions and no match for the Sony. Covering the Gopro's super wide view with lights at distance could be a little tricky.

Using a WB card at depth isn't exactly straight forward in my experience. If you hold the card a few inches in front of your camera and manual WB, that WB will only be effective for a few feet. Anything outside that range will be off on color. I've had poor luck with this method. What has worked for me, at least while using a filter, is to use a translucent piece of plastic cutout from a 1 gallon milk container or similar. Place it in front of your lens, point it in the general direction your going to shoot or the sandy bottom and then manual WB. It gives me a more effective WB. It's basically a homemade version working on the same principle as this: Vello Universal White Balance Handheld Disc WB-DU B&H Photo


Raja Ampat is a very nice location to dive, I would try to go with a good camera setup if possible.

Nothing beats having the right tool for the job and a flexible camera system helps with that. I know you have a budget so get what you can and just work with it.