enough "self-rescue" in AOW?

[Marie13]

Do you find that "overall" one agency is better than the other, PADI vs SSI? I know all comes down to the instructor, but syllabus wise and skill-mastery wise?

How about SDI?

I’m surprised you’re such a new diver! I’ve seen a pic of your big camera rig.

 

[Diver below 83]

No, I did paid "advanced" but they call the additional dives that you do "adventure dives". This is what I did: Advanced Open Water Diver | PADI

But now that I read it, I see that there's really no place in the description that talks about learning more skills. It seems to be more about "gaining experience."

Auto correct got you too lol. It doesn’t like “padi” lol. Wants paid

 

[Diver below 83]

How about SDI?

I’m surprised you’re such a new diver! I’ve seen a pic of your big camera rig.

I’m sdi. They require 25 dives to become an AOW. Not 5 like padi

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

This is amazing.... I can't believe so much of this was supposed to be done in OW.

Welcome to the club! I didn't have any idea how many violations occurred in my open water until I became an instructor. It is unfortunate, but common.

Do you find that "overall" one agency is better than the other, PADI vs SSI? I know all comes down to the instructor, but syllabus wise and skill-mastery wise?

I really don't wish to start a controversial discussion, but here goes. As you said, it does come down to the instructor. A good instructor from any agency is going to produce similar open water results as any other. From an instructor's point of view, I really liked how well prepared my students were from using the SSI online training. I didn't have to explain anything, I just added dive planning as I think all agencies do a poor job (my opinion). In my area, most shops that rent pools just have a 6 or 7 hours over two nights. No one does breathing from a free flowing regulator in CW#4, as that will require replacing a tank, and there goes 15 valuable minutes. Most skip the requirements of CW#5. One course I taught when I was teaching SSI, for some reason I stopped being able to equalize in the first pool session. With SSI, I was then able to change direction and focus on surface skills and then go back under the surface the next night. That saved the class for me, as pool time is expensive. I do like SSI's repeated hover skills, though it would be unnecessary if they required, instead of encouraging (AFAIK, everybody but RAID and the DIR agencies are the only ones who require it), students to be neutrally buoyant and trim the entire time.

Ironically, I found that by teaching neutral buoyancy and trim, I required less pool time, and I could spend more time teaching frog kicks.

The last word is flexibility: PADI is fairly rigid with its open water program, but in most places in the world, it doesn't matter. However, you cannot add required skills to courses and even if you don't require a new skill for certification, if something happens during that moment, you are going to find yourself under the bus. That said, I don't believe that any skills should be added to open water. If you overteach, you are going to have the same results as underteaching. Both are equally bad. Teach students neutrally buoyant and trim in any agency, and you'll get a solid new diver. SSI has a process for adding to courses, but I haven't explored it, only read about it in the standards. SDI and NAUI allow, encourage even, instructors to add reasonable requirements to their courses. Again, you have to be reasonable. There is no reason to have ditch and don skills, as if my scuba kit is on the bottom, I'm not going to free dive down to it and put it on. I'm going to get another scuba kit and fetch it. Where I like SDI as an instructor is that I can take their Advanced Buoyancy Control course and turn add a lot of skills like the DIR agencies' gatekeeper courses. This isn't radical stuff: finning techniques, maintaining depth, trim, controlled ascents/descents, sharing gas, deploying DSMBs; just fundamental diving skills that all divers should have.

I'm very curious about SNSI and RAID, as I've been hearing/seeing videos of some pretty thorough training.

I just think students need to shop around, educate themselves, talk to instructors, and choose the right instructor for them.

Not sure if I answered your question with my rambling. I hope I did.

 

[oly5050user]

Does PADI have the option of doing this in open water? I believe no.

No, pool only

 

[M DeM]

Replying to you since you seem like you'd know, but throwing this out there for everyone: is there a way to get some practice on these skills in open water with an instructor, or to get additional practice on the skills we did once, on our knees, in our OW course?

My friend with whom I got certified doesn't plan to dive again until it warms up, i.e. at least 6 months after our course. So I was thinking if she takes a refresher course I might join her, even though I will have been diving several times in the interim. I'd love to have a chance to just practice the skills again. But from what I'm reading, it seems the refresher course is all done in the pool, so it might not be quite what I'm looking for.

PADI has a course that sounds like exactly what you want - OW refresher but all in open water. PADI ReActivate Scuba Refresher Program

 

[M DeM]

Yeah, agree that your OW course was lacking and pretty much with all the posts so far. But OW or AOW has basically nothing to do with Rescue. And, I know you are in agreement that taking Rescue at some point will put you in good shape. Meanwhile, maybe pay an instructor to fill in what you are not up to par on from OW course. If, of course, that is a viable option in your locale. An experienced diver is not as good a choice as a "helper", but maybe that's your only option.
Yes, a Refresher is even a better option, but with the same operation that you took OW???

A guy from my local dive shop was a trip leader, but I found out he also was a search and rescue guy in Miami (lots of grisly stories) and he teaches rescue. So maybe I'll hit him up.

Thanks for the suggestion....

 

[M DeM]

Welcome to the club! I didn't have any idea how many violations occurred in my open water until I became an instructor. It is unfortunate, but common.

Not sure if I answered your question with my rambling. I hope I did.

You did indeed! Thanks!

 

[M DeM]

How about SDI?

I’m surprised you’re such a new diver! I’ve seen a pic of your big camera rig.

This is going to sound nuts... but buoyancy was actually easier with the camera. (That is, of course, after Cathy Church got it neutral.) And the rig basically came about because I need to shoot shutter priority, and there's no point and shoot that lets me do that. I was spending more time fiddling with the settings when I used a point and shoot than with my DSLR.

The most difficulty I found with the DSLR was when shooting wide angle. It takes a lot of time to reach out to those strobes and reposition them, and by that time the fish is gone. And then of course, having to be hyper-aware of now being much wider I am when my arms are out. I'd head over to a swim through and suddenly realize MY ARMS- QUICK! REDUCE, REDUCE!

Not sure why I found the buoyancy easier, though... The camera was neutral, so... I dunno.

 

[M DeM]

I never understood however, for cold water divers, it makes no sense to not teach them uw scuba kit removal and replacement in the open water, as that is where they'd use it. .

Not being a cold water diver, can I ask why you'd need that skill more for cold water than warm?