Enough GUE, tell me about other tech certs

[Meng_Tze]

"That" students opinion has no value. The question is how to tell which student is "That" student. When it all comes down to it, I make decisions based on the sum of information available, rather than a single source. I look for external validation and a common denominator.

As an example, the common denominator in your posts is that you are a smart arse with knowledge and the ability to think on your own. I like that, but weigh what you write (or don't) against what I know (or think I know) and validate points made or issues raised using any number of external sources.

***?

 

[JeffG]

who you're directing this particular comment at

Not directed at anyone. Just a scenario that plays out all the time.

The question is how to tell which student is "That" student.

Yep. Again, a question that is almost as tough to answer as to which instructor is good


It truly isn't fair to be a cynic and question everyone's opinion, but unfortunately the dive industry has manage to create such a monster. I certainly don't expect my opinion to be taken at full value just because I said (typed) it, but hopefully discussion of the issuse will help in giving insight in which a good instructor could be picked out the mob of morons.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Rob,

What other questions did you ask prior to selecting an instructor?

My initial questions focused on schedule and teaching philosophy. Sure, there's a lot to be taught in any kind of technical course, but I'd just as soon not spend hours upon hours in a classroom and then hit the water trying to remember everything that was covered in the classroom. So I want to know the course schedule and what we'll be doing. One of the best courses I took was a wreck course that took place at a picnic table next to the water. We discussed the didactic part, then went diving. We only talked about what was applicable for the next dive.

I then provide a list of my gear and ask if I need to purchase anything else prior to the course. I already know what I need, so this lets me know if I'm dealing with someone that knows what he's doing or if I'm dealing with someone that's stuck on a particular brand (I'll usually leave a piece of gear off the list and then ask about different brands). I also like to take courses from independents. These instructors are trying to sell themselves, not the gear in their store.

I ask about course fees. I know what the average rate is. I crossed an instructor off my list once because his fees were less than half the going rate - you get what you pay for.

I ask about experience in that particular type of diving - How many cave dives have you logged? Goes along with the next question. You can figure out how many were training dives v. experience dives.

How many cave divers have you certified? And more importantly, how many have you not certified due to insufficient skills or wrong attitude? I really liked the response the instructor I chose provided (from saved e-mail):

"Since I log by courses and not by divers, number of courses is easier.
Prior to moving to Florida, I taught Cavern only. Since moving to Cave
Country and pursuing cave and mixed gas training as my occupation, I have
taught slightly more than 160 overhead courses with approximately 50 of
those at Full Cave or above (specialties). While each diver is judged on
individual merit and ability, I require a higher level of performance as
the diver progresses through the overhead curriculum. By estimate only,
somewhat less than half complete Full Cave, DPV, etc. on their first
attempt. I "fail" very few, but do often require additional work prior to
completion. A failure occurs when I advise a diver I am no longer willing
to work with him."

Based on this answer and the previous one, this instructor had logged approximately 800 experience cave dives.

Finally, a big part of it is the attitude in the responses. This instructor was just answering questions. He wasn't trying to be a salesman or coming across as cocky. His website gave me the same impression.

Hope this helps you.

 

[Diesel298]

Back on topic..
ive used TDI for my tech training
as somone mentioned. the books arnt much. they give good info but in a simple, casual format.. and for me thats fine. the books can be given to the student and read rpior to the class, and the student can get the basics of the class, making the classroom more managable to follow..
the reason i think TDI sometimes get a bad name here is because theres a fair amount of flexability with the instructor. and alot of instructors want the money. and dont do the teaching. or wanna drive thecost down to be cost compettive with other shops in the area...
the thing is finding a good instructor..
the instructor i got my notrox from was all about streamlining classes to his bennift to maximize his time....
all the rest where from a instructor who most deffinetly makes you earn you c-card

 

[Diesel298]

I also like to take courses from independents. These instructors are trying to sell themselves, not the gear in their store.
.

thats a biggie right there..
so many places will contour there training to sell there gear
granted we all gotta eat, but ive seen this done to the extent the students gets outright lied to about somethings to bennifit the shop owner

 

[wb416]

thats a biggie right there..
so many places will contour there training to sell there gear
granted we all gotta eat, but ive seen this done to the extent the students gets outright lied to about somethings to bennifit the shop owner

All of my best experiences have been with independents.... or those only "loosely" associated with a shop...

 

[JeffG]

All of my best experiences have been with independents.... or those only "loosely" associated with a shop...

I know of one (instructor) that had a store and is now independent. He has commented on how to make ends meet he would take on students that he wouldn't take now just because of the financial pressure of owning a store.

 

[double80s]

I've just started taking Naui Technical Nitrox, Deco Procedures, and Helitrox courses. I'm fortunate enough to have an instructor that I've been able to dive with as a regular buddy for over a year now. He is only training 2 of us privately since the study materials have all been upgraded and the latest copies are not available for purchase.

It all comes down to the instructor. Hopefully you find a good match.

W

 

[sunnyboy]

I think there is one "quick test" for a tech instructor: Do they "DIVE TECH"?

Not, do they "teach tech", but rather do they really, really DIVE tech. Not just dives on the tech course, either. When they go diving outside of instruction (they DO go diving outside of teaching, right?), what kind of diving do they do?

I would not take a tech course from someone who does 99% of thier diving with single tank and a BCD, no matter what their teaching cert level.

-S

 

[dherbman]

Thanks for the replies.

A couple more questions:
1) Would it be fair to say that the single biggest difference between GUE and other agencies is the consistency of instructor quality?

2) Is the difference in instruction by different agencies significant enough to make diving together problematic? For example, would a GUE diver and a NAUI diver have to compromise their training standard to accomadate the other?