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Nova SS:
Well I hope he makes it. Thats gotta' be tough trying to match prices.
End of the dive shop as we know it.
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Well I hope he makes it. Thats gotta' be tough trying to match prices.
If the LDS is slowing passing away, I wonder how much is an issue of price, and how much is an issue of "too few divers to support too few shops". There may be many, many newly-certified divers, but, as someone said, many of them have only a brief fling at the sport; in addition, many others dive only once or twice a year as a sidebar to a non-diving vacation. Neither of those groups finds the need to buy equipment, in part because most diving locales really do provide excellent rental gear. Those renters also avoid the confusion, for almost anyone and new divers in particular, of a jillion different products, each with its own set of very vocal advocates who contend, "If you don't buy Brand Y, you're not getting the best."
Another factor -- at least for those of us who really are spoiled in our ocean diving locales and don't live within easy driving distance to a reef somewhere -- is that this is not a cheap sport. The cost of a long weekend for my bride and me in Cozumel (a direct flight from DFW) is a minimum of $1500, and that's a lot less than most other destinations, and far less than liveaboards. It's no surprise that many divers confine their diving to once a year while on vacation. Who needs their own gear for that level of activity?
So, maybe the matter of LDS viability is more a question of matching number of shops to number of active divers, and then getting the LDS to be a lot more than merely a gear seller and to provide a high level of overall service. In Dallas, we're lucky because Scubatoys, internet-based though it may be, still acts, in person, like a good LDS, and both service and price are excellent. Still, I've also bought at an LDS (Lone Star Scuba) closer to my house, and have always been treated well there.
Another factor -- at least for those of us who really are spoiled in our ocean diving locales and don't live within easy driving distance to a reef somewhere -- is that this is not a cheap sport. The cost of a long weekend for my bride and me in Cozumel (a direct flight from DFW) is a minimum of $1500, and that's a lot less than most other destinations, and far less than liveaboards. It's no surprise that many divers confine their diving to once a year while on vacation. Who needs their own gear for that level of activity?
So, maybe the matter of LDS viability is more a question of matching number of shops to number of active divers, and then getting the LDS to be a lot more than merely a gear seller and to provide a high level of overall service. In Dallas, we're lucky because Scubatoys, internet-based though it may be, still acts, in person, like a good LDS, and both service and price are excellent. Still, I've also bought at an LDS (Lone Star Scuba) closer to my house, and have always been treated well there.
Kat
Contributor
redhatmama:
sigh...
(I'm starting the popcorn...)
I am amazed at how often this needs to be discussed.
It is a very simple concept to understand. It is all about getting the most for your money. It is not about being cheap, it is about not being stupid.
Consumers need to educate themselves about gear. You do not need to ask the LDS about gear. You will very rarely get an honest opinion at the LDS. If someone buys into the air fill BS, the warranty scare tactic BS, needs to make friends &/or have their hand held, then the LDS is the perfect place to go.
The markup on gear at the LDS, near me, is double of internet prices. I do not buy something at the LDS, just to help them out. I already have a couple of favorite charities that I contribute to.
(I'm ready for the show...)
sigh...
When you purchase from a small business person, you generally buy a relationship in addition to gear. And often, the relationship is much more important than the gear. If I need a piece of equipment repaired, I can usually get it done in a couple of hours. I can get a tank filled in a couple of minutes. I enjoy stopping in and talking with them. I don't exclusively buy my equipment from my LDS, but when I don't, it is usually because I want something they don't stock.
At this point in my life - and I'm probably older than many of you - establishing good relationships has trumped saving money.
When you purchase from a small business person, you generally buy a relationship in addition to gear. And often, the relationship is much more important than the gear. If I need a piece of equipment repaired, I can usually get it done in a couple of hours. I can get a tank filled in a couple of minutes. I enjoy stopping in and talking with them. I don't exclusively buy my equipment from my LDS, but when I don't, it is usually because I want something they don't stock.
At this point in my life - and I'm probably older than many of you - establishing good relationships has trumped saving money.
Diver Dennis
Contributor
Wow Kat, you must have a lousy LDS. Not all LDSs out there are like that. Obviously if prices are double then I would not buy from them either. Your generalization that people rarely get an honest opinion at their LDS is wrong.
plankspanker
Contributor
I don't think it's so much that they are cheap as much as a lot of us aren't wealthy and diving is expensive so you have to stretch what you have to do what you want. I like a couple of the dive shops local to me and i do buy stuff from them but at the same time I am not "loyal" in the sense that I am going to throw money at them just because they are local. Though i don't have a hard and fast rule about what I buy where, generally if it is $100 or $150 cheaper online and it wasn't something that needed to be sized or I needed help with (first drysuit) then I got it online but if it is $10 or $20 more on a $100 item then I would get it locally unless they had to order it as well then I would just order it myself as it is usually faster. I'm not going to pay a $20 or $30 markup on a $10 item either. So yeah it is about price but it's not a black and white issue.redhatmama:
This seemed to come up every day when I 1st started diving and joined SB and I used to get so annoyed at the hardline "the internet is the end of dive shops" posts that were so common. That was almost two years ago and both LDS I go to are thriving just fine.
Codyjp:
Of course the LDS wants to charge you more money than the manufacturer would. How do you think they make their money? Now when you need to get your gear serviced, you have to pay for parts and labor whereas if you had spent the money on the MSRP like most everyone does, the warranty would cover your parts. The $150 you just "saved" will be spent very quickly as soon as you need to get your gear serviced. Good luck!
When I first patronized my LDS (and we new to diving), I didn't make a lot of purchases there. I wasn't crazy about their equipment at that time. Didn't like the Seaquest BCs, thought the Aqualung regs were overpriced. I made a lot of bad purchases online. It was probably a good thing because what I dive now and what I dived when I began are 180 degrees apart. I'm glad the mistkes I made initially were cheap ones.
But now, I ike the networking and they know what kind of equipment I like and don't try to suggest things not suited to me. They know what is going on with my diving and we talk without the BS of the hard sell.
But now, I ike the networking and they know what kind of equipment I like and don't try to suggest things not suited to me. They know what is going on with my diving and we talk without the BS of the hard sell.
Ice Mike
Registered
I find it difficult to judge when I am supporting my local shops not just (LDS) and when I am throwing money away.
So, in general I use the following rule:
I am willing to pay about 5% more for items at the LDS. If their difference with the internet is larger, it tends to be possible to give them the option to drop their price to meet the internet price. You will be surprised how often shops will take this option.
The 5% among others also buy's me the ability to see items real life before I purchase them.
My last purchase was a dive computer (4% more than the net). When I went to pick it up one of the screws in the side had not been tightened properly by the manufacturer (D6 Suunto).
The LDS saw this when we opened the package and offered me a new one straight away.
Good service at 4%.
Whether or not 5% is acceptable is all up to your personal finance situation. (And of course the service provided by the local shops)
Greetings
So, in general I use the following rule:
I am willing to pay about 5% more for items at the LDS. If their difference with the internet is larger, it tends to be possible to give them the option to drop their price to meet the internet price. You will be surprised how often shops will take this option.
The 5% among others also buy's me the ability to see items real life before I purchase them.
My last purchase was a dive computer (4% more than the net). When I went to pick it up one of the screws in the side had not been tightened properly by the manufacturer (D6 Suunto).
The LDS saw this when we opened the package and offered me a new one straight away.
Good service at 4%.
Whether or not 5% is acceptable is all up to your personal finance situation. (And of course the service provided by the local shops)
Greetings
Over the past few years that I have been working with my LDS, it is amazing the gear that has been brought in to the shop for servicing which has been purchased over the net. The real funny thing is when two divers (dive buddies) come in to have their gear serviced and the price is different. Why? because the gear bought over the net doesn't include the cost of parts used in the annual maintainence. There are also the e-bay idiots who bring in their deals from e-bay to be serviced and you cannot get parts for the gear anymore.
I do not buy gear from the internet anymore, I would rather support a LDS and keep another small business alive.
I amazed at the divers who think that the LDS should'nt make any profit! Those that think they will not miss a LDS when they go t*ts up! Where are they going to run to to have their gear serviced? They gonna do it themselves? Where are they going to run to for air? Their local welding shop?...Fire dept? Gotta tell you , most of these places do not service their air supply nearly as well as your LDS.
Sure their are LDSs that try to rape some clients, but I hope the majority don't.
I am flabbergasted and frustrated with those out there that don't think the LDS should charge mare than the internet shops, when they are not allowed to sell the gear at less than stipulated by the manufacturer. Yet the manufacturer allows their gear to be sold on the net cheaper than MSRP. This is a little bit of a double standard, and yet internet buyers support this inequity.
Anyway I have rambled on aimlessly long enough.
I do not buy gear from the internet anymore, I would rather support a LDS and keep another small business alive.
I amazed at the divers who think that the LDS should'nt make any profit! Those that think they will not miss a LDS when they go t*ts up! Where are they going to run to to have their gear serviced? They gonna do it themselves? Where are they going to run to for air? Their local welding shop?...Fire dept? Gotta tell you , most of these places do not service their air supply nearly as well as your LDS.
Sure their are LDSs that try to rape some clients, but I hope the majority don't.
I am flabbergasted and frustrated with those out there that don't think the LDS should charge mare than the internet shops, when they are not allowed to sell the gear at less than stipulated by the manufacturer. Yet the manufacturer allows their gear to be sold on the net cheaper than MSRP. This is a little bit of a double standard, and yet internet buyers support this inequity.
Anyway I have rambled on aimlessly long enough.
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