emergancy ascending

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USN Divers, UDTs, SEALs, and Submariners have
made "free ascents" (exhaling all the way) from
200 fsw in various parts of training. I suffered
no problems. Nor did numerous others.

It was once part of open water protocols in the
Training Agencies (25 fsw - 50 fsw)

Try it sometime in increments of 25 fsw after
you get some diving experience? That's just
me-to-you, because it cannot be taught
anymore. Too bad too because it builds
competence and confidence.

Bruce Wienke
Program Manager Computational Physics
C & C Dive Team Ldr
 
HPT3 once bubbled...
One of the first statements my instructor made to us was "We want you to have fun in this class." Stressing the importance of the dangers of diving was not on the top of the list.

20-30 years ago, diving was different than it is today. Diving was regarded as something of an extreme sport (although long before that phrase was coined) and a reasonable amount of fitness and mental acuity was assumed to be required. If you lacked one or the other you didn't pass and nobody babied you through the course.

Even basic open water certification classes required fair amounts of math and the ability to calculate things that are today not even touched upon in Advanced Open Water classes. In AOW classes deep diving meant 130 feet and deco procedures were routinely taught by instructors. Students in general got enough theory and training to go forth and advance to more "technical diving" (again well before that term was coined) pretty much on their own by informally mentoring under other more experienced divers. The sport was more dangerous in some ways, but then that, along with the greater challenge of the sport was a large part of the attraction.

Then the earth cooled and the dive industry discovered marketing. The training agencies watered down their curriculums and the equipment manfacturers found colors other than black, blue and orange and focused on style to a greater extent in order to attract more females (who unlike most males understand that orange is really a rather yuckky color and is hard to coordinate with nearly anything else). Both facets of the industry were driven by the potential to attract and produce large numbers of very casual and minimally trained divers who made up for a lack of skill and ability with money, credit cards and a desire to travel once or twice a year.

Of course the problem with this new approach was that you could not do serious stuff in training like emergency swimming ascents with students who can barely swim and you could not do it with a large number of students without statistically getting increasing numbers of people hurt during training or afterwards which, after all your efforts and advertising to the contrary, would lead people to view diving as dangerous and cause them to do something else with their money and over extended credit.

Consequently, attracting large numbers of people required that the danger be taken out of the sport and focus of dive training changed accordingly and stressing the dangers inherent in diving is not considered real cool in a modern scuba course.

So learning to dive got easier and the agency approved limits for open water and AOW divers got tighter to protect poorly trained and usually infrequent and minimally proficient divers from themselves. The strategy has however worked as diving is statistically safer than ever for the average recreational diver even if their skills are pretty limited and it's rare to get more than 0a dozen dives a year.

Following this industry change in direction, a split developed as the hard core od school divers continued to go deep and continued to do things like deco and overhead diving in wrecks and caves. Along with this they developed well thought out approachs to equipment and began using really wild (and according to the dive industry irresponsible) technigues and exotic gases like nitrox, which even 15 years ago would have gotten you kicked off many if not most dive boats.

The dive industry did not accept the newly fledged tech community until sales to normal divers flattened and the marketing folks who gutted the sport as it existed in the first place made the discovery that a very small percentage of divers (the technically oriented folks) were responsible for an unusually large percentage of the total equipment sales.

Then they got the brainstorm that if they reversed their position and said nitrox was a good thing and not some sort of lethal devil's brew, that they could make a killing on nitrox certification courses and then really rip everybody off by requiring specialized regs for use with nitrox.

So in some respects I think the recent rise in interest in technical diving and technical certification courses is sort of a natural correction to some of the negative things that have happend in the current dive industry's watered down open water and AOW training. It also provides a greater range of freedom and opportunity for a minority of incoming divers today who are in most respects very similar to the vast majority of divers in the sport 20-30+ years ago who enjoyed diving as a challenging and demanding sport with a user adjustable level of risk.

Having said all that, I agree that doing emergency ascents is a real confidence builder and that actually doing it in training is probably the best way to condition a response in a diver other than blind panic when the air stops flowing. But given the wide range in swimming ability and other water skills in todays new breed of recreational diver I am very hesitant to make a blanket recomendation to practice it.

If you can free dive to 30 feet in open water, you would, with proper training and supervision, have no problem doing a free ascent from twice that depth at a safe ascent rate. But if you feel challenged getting to the bottom of a nine foot swimming pool it's another story entirely.
 
Well said AM and a damn good post. Im realy happy that i had a old timer dive instruc that was not pleased when Padi came out with there new corse and book, so i got the book and was told to read it. But when i came to the class we talked about all the gas laws, how thy worked and what thy has to do with use a scuba diver. It was a hard class but it made it so easy to pass my AOW that it was just about anti-climatic. The AOW was by a diffent instruc and a diffent agincy. I wish that thy would get back to the basic. Sorry if im a little off the topic its a damn habit for me.
 
Quite so, DA and TD,

Additionally, we all know that the legal system in the USA,
liability concerns of Agencies and Instructors, and coverage
fees totally dictate what can and cannot be taught to the
population as a whole. Such is far from the case outside
the USA, where, for instance, deco is accepted as a standard
diving protocol. All this traces to our legal system which
seems to promote "suing everybody in sight" when risks
are accepted and accidents happen.

Period on training. And our legal system may never change.

The flip side, of course, is that "not everybody should dive",
contrary to the attitude taken by some Agencies in mass
marketing, then followed by total watering down of requisite
water skills, knowledge, and physical condition. That's why
free ascents, buddy breathing, required swims, deco, and
tech knowledge fly out the door at the same time.

And one last observation. Granting that the average
American is overweight, what do you think about the
weight and physical condition of the average non-professional
diver? Word is that it is one real concern.

Bruce Wienke
Program Manager Computational Physics
C & C Dive Team Ldr
 
Dear SCUBA SOURCE Readers:

Many thanks for all of the interesting posts to this topic.:mean:

Breath-hold Ascents

In my basic scuba class taken in 1985, I was told repeatedly that the “prime directive” in scuba diving is ”Never hold your breath. “ From the letters in this thread, I surmise that repetition of this mantra is not current practice among many instructors. That is unfortunate since few of the physical principles of diving physics will introduce you to trouble as rapidly as Boyle’ law violations. [Nowadays, it would also be necessary to add Dalton’s law with respect to partial pressure of oxygen in the breathing mixture.]

If the truth be known, the greatest danger lies in the shallow depths. There, a change of depth from 33 fsw to surface is a pressure change of 2.0. A similar change of 33 feet when going from 133 to 100 fsw would represent a pressure change of only (133 + 33)/ (100 + 33) = 1.25.

Thus pulmonary overpressure accidents would be more commonly experienced in the shallows. "Never hold your breath." :tut:

Dr Deco :doctor:
 
Ok....................(deep breath........thinking)............. Being new to the sport I didn't think I could ask such a deep and philisophical question. Once again, I just didn't want to kill myself from practicing this technique from 20fsw or so.
 
Dear all,

What the good doctor said in his last post still holds true.

In my courses at least. Ask any of my students and they'll tell you they have heard the "always blow bubbles", "never, ever, ever, ever - and then some - hold your breath", "always breathe, and when you run out of air, exhale - continuously" and "when there's no regulator in your mouth, call out: 'FaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatCaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!'" until they were fed up.

But at least they got the message, I hope.

Anyhow, it's still in the manual (the PADI manual anyway). It's even repeated several times. And during my IDC, the course directors were still pounding it in, so...

As for the CESA, I had to do a real one once, on my sixth dive, due to a regulator failure at 24 m (do the conversion yourselves guys, I haven't got the energy anymore), and it worked out fine.

My computer didn't even give me a "slow", and I still had breath to spare.

Wouldn't recommend it for fun though...:devilish:
 
HPT3 once bubbled...
Ok....................(deep breath........thinking)............. Being new to the sport I didn't think I could ask such a deep and philisophical question. Once again, I just didn't want to kill myself from practicing this technique from 20fsw or so.

Don't take it persoanlly. Every question on Scuba board is potentially deep and can potentially spark a great philosophical debate. I am amazed at how long some posts can get over what I regard is a nothing issue. But odds are there is always someone who will be passionate about the question at hand. But for the most part it is pretty interesting reading and the finger pointing is kept more or less to a minimum.

Scuba diving as a sport covers a multitude of philosophies and choices about techniques, gear configuration etc. and most serious divers who stay with the sport end up forming pretty stong opinons about how and what they dive.

The trick is to keep an open mind, not be too judgemental and not to take any disagreement personally. You get three divers on a dive boat and sooner or later you will get three different opinions about something.

Diving is one of those things that is constantly evolving so there is always some built in tension between the conservative view that you want to stick with what works versus the view that you should be constantly seeking to change your techniques or configuration to something that works better for your own type of diving. The fun part is that to varying degrees most divers swear by and at both philosophies, often at the same time.

BRW -

I agree with you on the fitness thing. It really bothers me that some cert agencies now allow you to do the swim test in fins. This allows people who can barely swim to get through it.

I have noticed though that fitness in relation to diving involves more than just weight. I have seem some pretty hefty guys leave the young athletic types in the dust. Some of it is technique and some of it is just developing the specific muscle groups that you use in scuba diving. So to some extent you can't judge a book by it's cover.

Doc Deco -

I agree that from a purely physics standpoint the greatest risk is at shallow depths less than 33 ft, due to the rate of change in airvolume involved.

However, from a practical standpoint the increased risk during deep ESA's occurs when a diver blows too much air too fast, runs short of air, starts to panic and consequently rushes the ascent toward the end in that last and very dangerous 33 ft. where his/her airway may or may not be open.

Also (please correct me if I am wrong) but I was also told at the time that blowing out too much air and ascending with your lungs almost completely empty poses the risk of having air trapped in isolated areas of the lung and causing an expansion injury on the way up.

In my experience, on an ESA from significant depth you need to keep the airway open but then again not force too much air out and that is the tricky part to get right.
 
In my experience, on an ESA from significant depth you need to keep the airway open but then again not force too much air out and that is the tricky part to get right.

Hum into the regulator on ascent. Insures that the glottis stays open & most people don't hum w/ extreme force. Given that the air is expanding in the lungs on ascent, should have plenty of air to last the trip.

Jim
 
Dr D, BRW, DA

From someone who was certified as a instructor 40yrs ago and taught for the next 10yrs and having watched instruction "evolve." Its great to have you playing my song. Only I would say the spiral started in 66 or 67 with NASDS and the resort course syndrome when travel dollars started to fly. Watching the OW and AOW courses and alot of the other "merritt badges" being collected I'm glad I had my fun when I did. Only things I would have wanted would be the advances people like Dr. D and BRW have made to expand good ole Jersey wreck divin with the present extended ranges (WAAS enabled GPS would have been nice too)
Enough of that I just had to say Thanks and glad not to be alone Ken
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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