Edmund Fitzgerald

[TCDiver1]

I understand how you feel and can rationalize my own, some would say hypocritical actions, of diving other wrecks where lives were lost, by a specific lack of any personal tie to those calamities.
I thought i explained that pretty well with with the reference to Chuuk.

Double standard? Yes .... probably. I personally would not feel right on the Fitz, for the reasons stated earlier and understand how the lost maritimers families feel, because i know some of them and respect their desires. In the same position, i think you would too.

Right or wrong, some of them would be really bothered if the Fitz became another "destination wreck" like the Doria. I believe time has a lot to do with it as someone stated earlier. Less than thirty years later most of the Mothers & Fathers are gone but wives & children are still here. These people lived that day and remember it like it was yesterday as any of us would with losing a loved one. You can't say that about the Doria or most of the wrecks you mentioned where at best the childrens, children may remember something about great-great grandpappy or mammy going down on the Doria.

Since the Fitz is "slightly" more technical than the Doria it is probably not in any danger of becoming a destination like the Doria. And personally i don't feel i have the right to tell you, you can't dive her. But i believe the people alive today, who lost family members on her do have that right. In time the pain of the lose will fade with the new generations & i'm sure objections will basically cease to exist.

Well, that was a lot of typing for something i know is not going to change your mind. I respect your viewpoint too. Just don't agree with it when it comes to the Fitz. To quote Stuart Smalley "and thats okay."

If it's not okay i say we meet at high noon on the grinder & settle this with pugle sticks like a normal pair of hard-headed Jarheads. What do you say? :shiner:

By the way, have you figured out your bottom mix yet?

 

[WreckWriter]

you certain have the right to that opinion, it's a very legitimate and honorable way of looking at things. My concern is not this one wreck, it's just that if one is legislated away then what's to stop another, then another, until finally some hotshot senator says "hey, let's just do the whole batch at once"? Diving wrecks is a very big part of my life, has been for a long time, and I worry over losing it.

On the grinder with pugils? Ugh, it's been a loooong time since I heard those words, say summer of 79 on a little island in South Carolina.........

As for bottom mix, nah, it's a dream, not a plan. I'm a long way from being ready to do something like that and quite possibly too old to get there. It'll remain in my heart though.

Tom

 

[TCDiver1]

When that Senator decides to try that, give me a call, i'll be right along side you fighting the pork-barrell son-of-a-gun! I agree the Ethics of this argument are muddy, very low vis! Very little good usually comes from that type of legislation. Much worse things than that for them to be fixing!

 

[MikeFerrara]

The song did it. If it wasn't for the song the majority wouldn't even know the wreck was there. Really good chance that I will never see 500 ft anyway.

 

[DivePartner1]

When I lived in tropical Duluth in the early 80's, a well preserved torso washed up somewhere on Lake Superior that had been mummified into something like chemically close to soap. By the intact clothing, they guessed the sailor died early in the 20th century.

I'd never heard that the Fitz was closed, only really, really deep. Who closed it? Michigan? Wisconsin? Ontario?

 

[WreckWriter]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
The song did it. If it wasn't for the song the majority wouldn't even know the wreck was there. Really good chance that I will never see 500 ft anyway.

You're right Mike. It was the song. 500 is pretty unlikely for me too but I'm holding on to the dream for a while longer.

Tom

 

[Lost Yooper]

I agree with Tom. If I could dive it I would. I dive on a lot of wrecks that were lost with some or all hands. The Cedarville (500'+ ore freighter) sunk in the Straits of Mackinaw and lost 10 hands in the 1950's. It's in 110' of water. The Bradley, another ore frieghter, also sunk in the 50's losing all but two people. She rests in Lake Michigan in 350ish' of water. These two ships crews were based out of the same home town -- pretty sad.

I agree with Mike. The song and Tom Farnquest did it. I'm not bitter about it, but the Fitz is no different than any other wreck. Diving it wouldn't be all that bad, but the logistics are a killer to organize and to pull off, particularly when you factor in the weather and it's location.

As far as bodies and remains, I've never seen remains on any of the wrecks I've been on. I have heard that there are skelatal remains near the Fitz and intact bodies in the Kamloops.

Mike

 

[WreckWriter]

most wrecks went down with folks on them. Only the environment determines if those folks remain and, if so, in what condition. Wreck divers should always be prepared for the possibility of encountering human remains.

Mike, interesting that you heard the remains on Fitz were skeletal. I had not heard any details but had read somewhere that a body had been seen (I believe near the bow) just off the Fitz.

Why would remains at this site deteriorate so much more rapidly than at the Kamloops site? Surely the water at the Fitz site wouldn't be warmer, would it?

Interesting subject, hope noone finds it too macabre.

Tom

 

[MikeFerrara]

As long as we're on the subject, and no disrespect meant, but I know divers who have met up with the remaining crew of the Kamloops. I was told that the body is incases in a cacoon like stuff (for lack of a better term). I think it is the result of body fats. I have seen this stuff around dead fish. I was also been told hat there were seperations at joints made up of small bones like the wrist or neck. It is a morbid subject but the same preservation qualities of the environment are th reason these wrecks last so long.

I understand why some don't think these wrecks should be dived but in many cases it has been divers who have recovered remains or buried them off the wreck and placed markers. The fact that divers want to dive a wreck does not, IMO, indicate disrespect or insensativity.

 

[WreckWriter]

That's an interesting phemenon Mike. I can understand the joint seperation but the fat externalizing seems odd. I'm not at all familiar with the effects of long-term cold water immersion. I don't suppose there's any pics of this floating around (errrr no pun intended)?

Tom