Early scuba gear

[DementialFaith]

Breathed the Mistra when ut was sent to the shop I'm at for testing. How can I put this... it's a little less than expectation, quite a little less. We all agreed that if all the regs in the world have exhalation like the Mistra, overexertion will be a much more important problem than buoyancy.

 

[ProfessorAronnax]

You mean one like I am using here? I am diving in this pic (Summer of 05) a square label Royal Aqua Master (RAM) from US Divers circa 1966. One of if not the finest regulators ever built. It might surprise you to know that many divers still use these double hose regulators. The RAM has essentially the same first stage as the Conshelf or even todays Titan and they can be tuned to breath effortlessly and with adapters can support LP devices and SPGs. The Royal Aqua Master, King of the Hill. N

Sweet System!

 

[dbg40]

VINTAGE???? Youre killing me! I learned to dive on that reg! N is correct, I don't think a better reg has ever been made. They are as close to 100% bullit proof as a regulater can get.

 

[Nemrod]

I am a relatively new convert to the Royal Aqua Master. In about 1968 I was given a Mistral by my uncle who had purchased it about 1958 in California while stationed there. The Mistral of that era was a single stage double hose regulator. I dived the heck out of that thing but as BCs came on the scene and 3000 psi tanks I phased her out. The original Mistral because of its single stage design does not like tank pressure beyond 2475 psi and preferably about 2250. The RAM and DA AquaMaster can be used on 3000 psi systems and in particular since the RAM is essentially a double hose Conshelf it could care less, it is a very rugged design. The DA AquaMaster is a two stage but unlike the RAM is unbalanced. They are fine regulators as well and can be tuned to breath very well. They were USDs work horse regulator from the 50s and into the earliest 70s. Bunches were made and their lower pricing reflects the numbers.
I got back into double hose diving when I pulled my old Mistral out for a spin in an effort to simplfy for diving from a kayak. It was the best thing I ever did. Now, I have aquired a couple of RAMs and I wonder why I ever fooled around with those silly single hose jobs--lol---what is that all about anyways!!!!? Just teasing.

It is interesting about the exhaust being diffuclt on the new Mistral as someone mentioned. I had one in a pool and while it breathed OK it just was not "right". You know--somethings are right and some things are not and it was not. The main complaint I have about it is the hoses are larger than older double hose regulators and they are excessivly bouyant as a result. Breathing a regulator dry or even for a few minutes in a pool is not the best way to evaluate it. I have learned this over a long time is that one must actually use a piece of equipment to fully understand it.

Warning--do not go pull grandpaws or your dads double hose out of the closet and jump into the Pacific ocean with it. They require training different from what is taught now. Some quick examples, they have no purge buton so you must master the several techniques for clearing a flooded regulator. They also cannot be handed off like a single hose so you must learn to buddy breath by rolling the hose--or--have an ocatapus hooked up etc, they also need attention to positioning more carefully than todays regualators. The main case must be positioned low between the shoulders and as close to the center of lungs as possible for best results. There are other issues as well ---easy to learn--but one must be aware of them before diving a double hose. Thing is that once you have used a well tuned double hose and get easy with it then you may not want to go back to that new Super Breather Turbo 10000X with Teflon Torque addivitve.
Now that I am on the verge of becoming a codger I have noticed how skirts go up and down, pants go low and high, ties go thin and then fat and cars had tailfins and then they did not and now they do again (spoilers) and diving equipment is the same way. Styles change and then they change again often winding up right where you started, simplified scuba or "back to basics" scuba diving is kind of a new movement--again---and nothing is more simplified than basic double hose diving.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all. N

 

[Peter Guy]

This type of thread REALLY hurts me right where it counts. Oh do I miss my old AquaMaster. It, along with almost all my old gear, went missing years ago. Sigh.

Interesting comments about the new Mistral. I've been gazing at one at my LDS and the price has become VERY attractice. Hmmm, maybe I should start perusing ebay for a Royal AM?

I suppose the OP of this thread doesn't know what a Phonograph, a typewriter or a rotary phone is either!

 

[Manta Aria]

I really gotta thank you all for this thread :christmas . When I first saw the new/old Mistral reintroduced, I have to be honest. I began to drool :32: . Don't get me wrong, I love my Apeks ATX 200 Black Pearl . But you just just can't beat a design that won't die after 37+ years! So Royal AMs are still available? I'm still new to the art, how do I track one down? If Double hosed regs are such a bear, can't one be manufactured with a front purge and ease of breathing for exhale? I mean, If an APEKs ATX 200 could be made dual hose, that seems like it would be Perfection Achieved !! No better reg ever made, the next step would be gills gentlemen!! Am I wrong?
Nemrod, Thanx for all the info :god: !! Now I can pursue such regs in a semi- intelligent manner!!

 

[Walter]

If Double hosed regs are such a bear, can't one be manufactured with a front purge and ease of breathing for exhale?

It could be done, but it wouldn't really be vintage (the new mistral isn't either) nor even vintage like. It would be a single hose reg disguised as a double hose. If you hid the second stage inside the large double hose (easy to do) instead of putting it on the tank valve with the first stage, you could have a purge button. This would eliminate some of the extra buoyancy of a double hose, and make inhalation easier as you'd get ambient pressure at your mouth (like a single hose) instead of at the tank valve (like a true double hose). A double hose is not hard to exhale, but to inhale at shallow depths if your mouth is deeper than your tank valve (as when you are horizontal). Roll over on your back and it will free flow.

I wouldn't expect a market for such a regulator. Vintage divers want the real thing while divers who want a modern reg don't generally want a double hose. I suspect you are in the minority.

 

[Nemrod]

Manta Aria, first of all, they are not hard to exhale. Secondly, the Royal Aqua-Master has not been produced since about 1974. The Mentor (similar to the RAM) is made in small numbers for the Navy but they are terribly expensive and unavailable to the public. Royal Aqua-Masters are often on ebay where a quality example in fucntioning order and good hoses etc will push 500 dollars. Rough examples will go around 250. Almost all the needed parts are available to completely rebuild them to new condition including several small buisness types that are experts at it and have the needed parts and equipment for reasonable prices. The DA Aqua-Master is more common and they go for 150 to 250 dollars. At 250 dollars they should be pretty clean. Careful shopping like all things of that type spell the difference between a good buy and a nightmare. Both vintagedoublehose.com and vintagescubasupply.com often have rebuilt examples for sale ready to go.
Don't be a girly mahn, dive double hose--lol!
N

 

[Nemrod]

"If Double hosed regs are such a bear"

Well, the thing is they are not a "bear", they are just different and thus your training will have to be supplemented in order to safely and efficiently use them. You were trained with a single hose so in like manner some training will be needed for a double hose. No, you don't need a course, just get an old copy of the New Science of Skin and Scuba and spend some quality time in the deep end of your Y pool. It is not rocket science.
Sorry for the second post but I did not see your full question. How do you get a good double hose? Visit the sites I mentioned, study ebay for a few months, get hold of one and have one of those two places I gave links to rebuild it for you and you are on your way. Any questions, give me a holler, join the vintage divers at the forums as well at the link I provided, guys there will be happy to talk double hose diving ad nauseum. Hope this helps you out. No, I am not affiliated with either, they are friends and yes I do try to recruit new vintage divers, the more the better. N

 

[ClevelandDiver]

Manta Aria, first of all, they are not hard to exhale. Secondly, the Royal Aqua-Master has not been produced since about 1974. The Mentor (similar to the RAM) is made in small numbers for the Navy but they are terribly expensive and unavailable to the public. Royal Aqua-Masters are often on ebay where a quality example in fucntioning order and good hoses etc will push 500 dollars. Rough examples will go around 250. Almost all the needed parts are available to completely rebuild them to new condition including several small buisness types that are experts at it and have the needed parts and equipment for reasonable prices. The DA Aqua-Master is more common and they go for 150 to 250 dollars. At 250 dollars they should be pretty clean. Careful shopping like all things of that type spell the difference between a good buy and a nightmare. Both vintagedoublehose.com and vintagescubasupply.com often have rebuilt examples for sale ready to go.
Don't be a girly mahn, dive double hose--lol!
N

Nemrod,

I checked with Aqualung (see below) and they no longer make the mentor for the military and, as you stated it, was never available to the public.

BTW that is a fine collection you have going there, I'm still struggling to get one good one together (my working Healthways single stage looks like junk next to your toys).

If you know anyone with a working Voit Trieste or Royal Aqua-master they want to sell, let me know.

Thanks,

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Anderson [mailto:TAnderson@aqualung.com]
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 12:20 PM
To: Mike
Subject: RE: Mistral v. Mentor


Hello Mike, the Mentor was a limited run specifically for a Military order. It was only available for the Military and is no longer available.

Sincerely,

Todd Anderson
Aqualung Repair Dept.
760-597-5000



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:43 AM
To: Lupe Frost
Subject: Mistral v. Mentor

Is there any difference in the basic design of the Mistral and the Mentor (military) double hose regulators? If so, what are they and is the Mentor available for purchase to non-military customers.
Thanks,

Mike