Eagles Nest Ballroom Questions

[Manatee Diver]

You aren't getting back there without a scooter, there are a ton of T's back there, but it's because it also starts a good way back and is off of the gold line. The craziness starts around 2500ft back which is a LONG way back when kicking in high flow at depth. Call it 3.5ata's, and probably 30fpm average with the flow, 80mins kicking, you're bringing at least 500cf of gas with you just to get to the start. That's double 104's and 3x stages just to get to the start of that stuff.
The other nice thing about that back section is the T's are almost all done with arrows like the big T's in Little River *though using normal arrows*, so it makes it a lot less sketchy.

I wasn't expecting to get back there, simply in those caves to see what is different up there.

 

[rjack321]

You aren't getting back there without a scooter, there are a ton of T's back there, but it's because it also starts a good way back and is off of the gold line. The craziness starts around 2500ft back which is a LONG way back when kicking in high flow at depth. Call it 3.5ata's, and probably 30fpm average with the flow, 80mins kicking, you're bringing at least 500cf of gas with you just to get to the start. That's double 104's and 3x stages just to get to the start of that stuff.
The other nice thing about that back section is the T's are almost all done with arrows like the big T's in Little River *though using normal arrows*, so it makes it a lot less sketchy.

I am definitely a fan of the Ts myself, despite the fact that they did/have contributed to past fatalities. Poor scooter techniques and practices can mess you up bad in different places in different ways.

That section of JB is really nothing like the fat goldline of Ginnie from the insulation room, past mainland etc despite being similar depths and distances. I swam to the stratosphere once, on CCR. Was kinda like running a 10k (I recall it was a 75min swim in, 50mins out and 25mins of deco roughly)

 

[tbone1004]

I am definitely a fan of the Ts myself, despite the fact that they did/have contributed to past fatalities. Poor scooter techniques and practices can mess you up bad in different places in different ways.

That section of JB is really nothing like the fat goldline of Ginnie from the insulation room, past mainland etc despite being similar depths and distances. I swam to the stratosphere once, on CCR. Was kinda like running a 10k (I recall it was a 75min swim in, 50mins out and 25mins of deco roughly)

yeah it's quite interesting back there, I absolutely love it, but bad scooter technique can cause lots of problems. It's something that gets talked about regularly with more people on DPV and CCR than there arguably should be, but there is only so much that you can do to fix stupid when things are that far back.

 

[rjack321]

yeah it's quite interesting back there, I absolutely love it, but bad scooter technique can cause lots of problems. It's something that gets talked about regularly with more people on DPV and CCR than there arguably should be, but there is only so much that you can do to fix stupid when things are that far back.

Is moving the line down off the ceiling ever discussed? That seems to be part of what makes that area so difficult for people

 

[tbone1004]

Is moving the line down off the ceiling ever discussed? That seems to be part of what makes that area so difficult for people

It was moved up there for a reason... That area is difficult for people that don't want to take the time for progressive penetration and learn their way around back there and just want to hop on the trigger and zip around. It's not difficult at all once you dive it a dozen times or so, but as DPV's and CCR's become more accessible and are pushed harder, most people are going a lot farther back than they ever used to and doing it much faster *both in terms of their diving career but also in terms of speed in the water*.

That dive 10 years ago was considered a massive dive. 3 stages if kicking, or 2 if on a DPV, and the DPV's needed to get back there were big, heavy, and relatively slow. Very few people were going back there and the line was placed very strategically to allow for easy movement by those that were experienced enough to be back there. Now, you have people that have been diving for a year or two hopping on a fast scooter or rebreather and zipping back there without the experience to really be there.

You see the same issue in Ginnie where the damage beyond 2,000ft has been rapidly accelerating over the last decade.

I guess I'm saying that the people who seem to have such difficulty with it really have no business being back there yet and having those issues should hopefully cause the voice in their head to tell them that and they go home before the cave bites them.

 

[rjack321]

It was moved up there for a reason...

I don't think it was moved intentionally. It's always been up there.

The consequence is that its easy to do visual Ts (intentionally or out of laziness) and harder to actually see and cookie them. In the interest of encouraging good caving diving practices and habits, moving it down to cinder blocks on the floor would be probably be wise. But as far as I know it's never been discussed.

 

[tbone1004]

I don't think it was moved intentionally. It's always been up there.

The consequence is that its easy to do visual Ts (intentionally or out of laziness) and harder to actually see and cookie them. In the interest of encouraging good caving diving practices and habits, moving it down to cinder blocks on the floor would be probably be wise. But as far as I know it's never been discussed.

Some of it has moved to the top during re-lining. A lot of it was put up there originally out of necessity, but during re-lining events more and more goes up to the ceiling.

I prefer the line up there and do admit that it is much easier to do visual T's, but it's a conundrum of having divers that are taking it slow and paying more attention or as @cerich likes to say, "it's an equipment solution to a skills problem".

Bring it up with Edd next time you talk to him, I'll be curious to see what he says as I haven't talked to him about it in probably 5-6 years