Dutch Springs Quarry Accident

[ScubaFeenD]

Do we know that exposure was the main cause?

Assuming that cold water was the main factor leading to the accident:

If the student wants to continue diving in colder climates it may not be a bad idea to introduce the concept of hypothermia early on.
However, the instructors should dive wet too in order to make the message more credible.

The idea of hypothermia can be learned in a book; teaching by allowing hypothermia is dumb and dangerous.

The instructor diving wet too doesnt just mean he gets to feel the cold too, but he also can get the confusion, disorientation, unconsciousness that the student can get too. Also dumb.

I dont care what climates you are diving in, just because the prevailing temps are colder doesnt mean you "tough it out." Instead, you should learn to use the proper exposure protection.

I was in the water and it was cold (painfully so at times), and a group of dry suit divers around me agreed that it was the worst time to be learning how to dive. Why introduce stupid machismo attitudes into a sport that is supposed to be fun?

 

[gypsyjim]

Anyone have an update on the injured diver's condition?

Hey if you want information start your own thread.
This one is all about speculation.

Sorry, but I too would rather learn of the diver's condition, and wait until real information is available before making judgments as to who or what was/is at fault.

 

[jhupka]

here is what I saw after coming up from my 2nd dive in a dry suit

boat was out by instructor towing student in that was breathing. I am basing instructor on overheard conversation between him and Dutch staff as well as student based on same.

Gear was recovered at depth in rope (assuming line going from bus to attraction on other side of lake, specifically not known. Based on over heard conversation of diver recovering students gear.

Staff threw a rope at instructor and towed in both to dock. Ambulance was already on the way 02 was administered after woman was brought to dock moaning and breathing. Wet suit was cut away. They took there time in the ambulance not sure why and did not see paramedics though a 2nd ambulance arrived. Those are the known facts.

My speculation, student got tangled in the rope and panicked and bolted to surface out of her BC.

What really happened, not sure. Condition of injured diver as of writing this unsure.

 

[cruiser]

The instructor diving wet too doesnt just mean he gets to feel the cold too, but he also can get the confusion, disorientation, unconsciousness that the student can get too. Also dumb.

Not so dumb really. If the water temperatures are so cold that the instructor may succumb to confusion, disorientation and unconsciousness while diving wet, then it's REALLY not safe for students diving wet, because the students may not have the knowledge or experience to know what's happening to them when these symptoms appear. This can set off panic that can lead to bolting for the surface.

 

[oly5050user]

Not so dumb really. If the water temperatures are so cold that the instructor may succumb to confusion, disorientation and unconsciousness while diving wet, then it's REALLY not safe for students diving wet, because the students may not have the knowledge or experience to know what's happening to them when these symptoms appear. This can set off panic that can lead to bolting for the surface.

If the instructor does not have the experience to know that water temps below 60 degrees can cause students to get cold easily then maybe that instructor should not be teaching in those conditions. Everyone has different tolerences for cold.If the instructor is cold and looses his/her efficiency in the water then in my view that instructor is negligent with their duty of care that the students deserve. Many times I take only 2 students at a time in cold maybe 60 degree/low vis water.I have them perform their required skills and conduct a tour.Then I take the next 2 students in and repeat the dive.So under those circumstance I can be in the water 2 or 3 times longer than the students.I should risk not being prepared and able to be effective for them?? I think not.

 

[Lobzilla]

MOD please split this thread into the accident (that looks like it had nothing to do with hypothermia) and another thread that discussed how to convey the risk of hypothermia in practical teaching.

 

[Martini]

Jeremiah how sure are you of those events. I spoke to someone who was involved in the rescue efforts who reported the student surfaced with her gear intact and the instructor removed the gear and ditched it on the surface during the tow to aid in removing her from the water.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

If the instructor does not have the experience to know that water temps below 60 degrees can cause students to get cold easily then maybe that instructor should not be teaching in those conditions. Everyone has different tolerences for cold.If the instructor is cold and looses his/her efficiency in the water then in my view that instructor is negligent with their duty of care that the students deserve. Many times I take only 2 students at a time in cold maybe 60 degree/low vis water.I have them perform their required skills and conduct a tour.Then I take the next 2 students in and repeat the dive.So under those circumstance I can be in the water 2 or 3 times longer than the students.I should risk not being prepared and able to be effective for them?? I think not.

The instructor should know the limitations of his or her suit and metabolism in terms of cold water tolerance and then schedule, plan and conduct the dives accordingly.

None of that prevents or mitigates against the use of a wet suit.

Part of it is a basic leadership thing in not asking students to do anything you are not willing to do.

It also benefits the class in terms of the instructor knowing the water temp, and acting/reacting accordingly as well as in terms of the class being sent the clear message that "cold water" diving can be both safe and fun in something other than a drysuit. If you fail to send that message and live in parts of the country with this thing called "winter" then the odds are good that divers will avoid local diving and the potential it has for experience and skill development. A bad move for both the LDS and the diver's development.

Part of it is also just a keen awareness of "oh crap it's cold, we need to keep it moving and get this done quickly/efficiently". That might mean smaller groups, splitting the skills between more shorter dives, or just little things like staying shallow and above the thermocline as much as possible. A wet suit makes it a lot easier to feel not just the big thermoclines, but the gradual decreases in temp with depth that are not always obvious in a warm and toasty drysuit.

I agree that if an instructor becomes hypothermic, that is an issue - however the instructor is far more experienced (theoretically) in the actual cold water conditions (another theoretical construct) and should be able to gauge the onset of initial hypothermia symptoms either in his or her self, and/or in the students before it becomes an issue.

 

[oly5050user]

Part of it is also just a keen awareness of "oh crap it's cold, we need to keep it moving and get this done quickly/efficiently". That might mean smaller groups, splitting the skills between more shorter dives, or just little things like staying shallow and above the thermocline as much as possible. A wet suit makes it a lot easier to feel not just the big thermoclines, but the gradual decreases in temp with depth that are not always obvious in a warm and toasty drysuit.

I agree that if an instructor becomes hypothermic, that is an issue - however the instructor is far more experienced (theoretically) in the actual cold water conditions (another theoretical construct) and should be able to gauge the onset of initial hypothermia symptoms either in his or her self, and/or in the students before it becomes an issue.

like you said "keen awareness of the cold"....I know its cold ,thats why I would only take 2 students at a time,do the skills and tour then take the next 2..This way there is less time in the water for students as they do not wait for everyone to complete their skills." Keep it moving and get it done" as you said.

 

[jhupka]

Jeremiah how sure are you of those events. I spoke to someone who was involved in the rescue efforts who reported the student surfaced with her gear intact and the instructor removed the gear and ditched it on the surface during the tow to aid in removing her from the water.

Not sure the gear tangled in rope was based on overheard conversation from person that recovered gear. The two were at the surface on the way in already when I saw what was going on.



basically this

here is what I saw after coming up from my 2nd dive in a dry suit

boat was out by instructor towing student in that was breathing. I am basing instructor on overheard conversation between him and Dutch staff as well as student based on same.

Gear was recovered at depth in rope (assuming line going from bus to attraction on other side of lake, specifically not known. Based on over heard conversation of diver recovering students gear.

Staff threw a rope at instructor and towed in both to dock. Ambulance was already on the way 02 was administered after woman was brought to dock moaning and breathing. Wet suit was cut away. They took there time in the ambulance not sure why and did not see paramedics though a 2nd ambulance arrived. Those are the known facts.