Dumbing down of scuba certification courses (PADI) - what have we missed?

[MXGratefulDiver]

I have been reading posts which talk about the simplification of PADI and other certification courses over the years. I though my PADI OW & AOW course were fantastic, but it makes me wonder---

Have new divers like myself missed important and useful information that was taught pre-1983? What has changed?

As others have already noted, this isn't something that's specific to PADI or any other training agency ... most of the major agencies follow the same basic training model, with variations not so much in what they teach, but in how they teach it. PADI gets the bad rap because they're the biggest agency, and therefore the easiest target.

For the most part, the things that got dropped were determined not to be useful to the "target audience" ... which in the case of most agencies is the vacation diver. In the old days, there was one course ... and everything got taught in that course. Therefore, it took a lot of time and effort to get certified. Today's training model is multi-step, with the notion that you don't have to possess the skills of a Navy SEAL in order to dive ... you just need enough knowledge and skill to keep from hurting yourself while you gain more experience. Most things that got dropped from the OW class were simply transferred into other classes (AOW, Stress & Rescue, and Specialty classes).

The most significant change is the customer base ... diving is no longer the sole province of young, fit men ... people of all ages, gender, shape, and size participate. For better or worse, dive training is nothing more than a product that people decide to buy ... and the most successful training programs are those that have produced a training curriculum that these people will WANT to buy. For the majority of those people, that means breaking the training down into smaller components that will get people in the water while they're gaining knowledge and skills ... and leaving the decision up to them as to how much training is enough.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[String]

A few things come to mind here.

Firstly most agencies have taken what ages ago was a longer course and broken it into chunks (creating separate rescue modules and so on). This means that the entry level course has less content than the initial course but that isnt comparing like with like. This is obviously for commercial reasons and the fact that people dont want to spend ages learning initially.

Another thing is things move on. Things done decades ago maybe no longer relevant or even useful in the modern era so they are removed. That content has gone but it doesn't mean dumbed down.

There are also people in all walks of life (not just diving) who will always insist "it was harder back in my day blah blah blah blah" who utterly refuse to embrace any form of change and constantly bitter at someone doing it not the way they did it without ever admitting things may have changed for the better. You come across a lot of these everywhere.

Yes to me some things need to be brought back into courses (rescue for everyone for example), some things have gone and for the better and other things id like to see removed (cesa,snorkelling).

Things have changed, at a basic level diving isnt actually that difficult or challenging. The lack of bodies piling up would hint that however "simplified" in some peoples view the courses are they aren't dangerous. Yes you get very inexperienced divers and some will be a hell of a lot more competent than others. However that was also the case years ago but people choose to ignore it. Some people will always be good, some will always be dangerous regardless of the training.

As people have said above, diving is now something affordable and reachable by all regardless of age, gender and so on and the training reflects that. You dont need to be a super fit 20-30 something male to do a shallow single tank dive on a nice reef somewhere.

 

[Walter]

Kathy, you've been given a great deal of misinformation in the replies so far. No agency has ever had a program that was modeled on Navy training. No agency has ever tried to wash out those who couldn't cut it. There were individual instructors who took those approaches, but it was never encouraged by agencies nor incorporated into their standards. When folks compare any civilian training program to Navy SEAL training, you can pretty much ignore what was said.

Skills that were removed were not skills that were determined weren't needed. They were skills that took too much time to learn. They are extremely useful skills and, IMO, critical to the overall safety of all divers. Removing them allowed marketing to folks who will never be divers, but could be sold a weekend class. Removing them allowed instructors to crank lots of students through classes in a very short time period and increase profits. Profit is a good thing, but it should not come at the cost of safety. It has.

Lots of things were dropped and not moved to advanced or specialty courses. That's another thing folks have been told and they truly believe it, but it's simply no so. The removal of skills started prior to 1983. Anyone taking a PADI class that followed standards to the letter in 1983, would not find things all that different from a typical PADI class today. By 1983, most of the damage had already been done.

Have other agencies lowered their standards? Yes, but not all of them. PADI led the way in cutting standards and many agencies have followed their lead. There was a time when PADI standards were the lowest in the industry. Today, other agencies have lowered their standards to match.

PADI was not the first agency to market to women. Agencies had female instructors and actively recruited women before PADI existed. LA County and YMCA had female instructors in the 1950s, PADI was formed around 1966.

So what has changed? Most of today's classes are shorter and harder than what they once were. In a quality class (hard to find, but still around), skills are broken down into smaller steps to make them easier to learn. In a quality class, more time is devoted to practicing the skills of diving. In a quality class, more skills are taught that give students, especially the weaker students, confidence in their own abilities as divers. In a quality class, students learn not to panic. A quality class actually prepares divers to dive on their own with just a buddy. Most classes today prepare students to follow a divemaster around.

You've read the PADI manual a few times, very good. Now read SCUBA Diving by Dennis Graver or even better, the NOAA Diving Manual, you'll find them to be much better references.

 

[Hoomi]

Okay, so I'm a rank newbie whose opinion might not count for much anyway. Take it for what it's worth.

What I've noticed in reading through my PADI text, what we are being taught is recreational diving, as opposed to the more detailed professional diving training that was once the norm.

I don't anticipate ever needing to descend to extreme depths with an underwater welding kit and the task of repairing part of an oil rig. I seriously doubt I will be called upon at any time in my life to dive to a downed military aircraft, with the mission of retrieving COMSEC equipment from that wreck before agents of an unfriendly country get it.

I will be diving for fun, and that's what I'm currently learning.

Just as the gym teachers in school taught us basic sports skills and then turned us loose to have fun. The few kids destined for MLB or the NBA or the NFL would go on to the more intense training that professional sports require. The rest of us, well, while almost ANY activity carries risks, the kind of playing we would be doing really didn't warrant the degree of training the pros get.

Technology has made scuba far more accessible to the average person than it used to be. Watch old reruns of diving shows from the fifties and sixties, and compare them to video of divers today. I don't know how they ever managed to equalize in those old oval masks. Buoyancy was set by weight belts (no BCDs), and the divers set it up for what they figured would be average buoyancy for the dive. Part of the time, they could be working to stay up at a given depth, or working to stay down. Pressure guages and dive computers weren't yet available, and much of the empirical knowledge we have now was being learned the hard way.

Do you know how much training my Dad had to undergo to work with computers back in the late 60s and early 70s? The computers he worked with are barely shadows of the ones we have today, and high school kids are writing more complicated programs than Dad ever wrote with his college degree. Shall we declare that no one can work on a computer without a degree, because my Dad had to get one before he worked on computers?

Yeah, it's an imperfect comparison, because making a dumb mistake on a computer isn't going to result in lung over-expansion injuries or drowning. Still; we can retain the same mindset on training that was used with the technology of 1970 or 1980, or we can look at the calendar and realize it's 2008. The science and knowledge we have today is built on over sixty years of scuba history, coupled with the advancements in equipment and a paradigm shift in the focus on what people are being trained to do.

What are the percentage of injuries and deaths in the scuba community today versus fifty years ago? Is it significantly worse? Now, look also at the availability of scuba gear and the relative cost, based on a much larger market. Would we have nearly so many manufacturers and shops if people still had to get trained the 1975 way before they could do an open water dive?

 

[Web Monkey]

What I've noticed in reading through my PADI text, what we are being taught is recreational diving, as opposed to the more detailed professional diving training that was once the norm.

I don't anticipate ever needing to descend to extreme depths with an underwater welding kit and the task of repairing part of an oil rig. I seriously doubt I will be called upon at any time in my life to dive to a downed military aircraft, with the mission of retrieving COMSEC equipment from that wreck before agents of an unfriendly country get it.

That's actually not what is/was taught in either the old class or the new class.

Almost 100% of an OW SCUBA class is teaching you what to do When Things Go Wrong. not horrible things like the pipe you're welding imploded, but useful things like what to do when someone comes up from behind and grabs your reg because they're out of air.

Aside from the fluff classes like Photography and Fish ID, almost all the specialty classes are designed to enhance your ability to handle emergencies and to avoid them. Night & Low Viz and Nav, for example teach you how to find your way around, not get lost and find your way back to shore or the boat. Stress and Rescue trains to avoid and/or handle various emergencies that either weren't covered or were minimally covered in OW.

What are the percentage of injuries and deaths in the scuba community today versus fifty years ago? Is it significantly worse?

This is the million dollar question, and it's really hard to answer because:

• There are no records of how many dives are done
• Which divers are doing them
• How many get injured
• How many drop out
• How many new divers are certified.

However from personal observations, I can tell you that at any gathering I've been to, there is at least one person who tells me that they were certified in a fast class somewhere, went diving, got injured or scared and never did it again.

When diving from cruise ships, I get to see lots of brand new (certified that day) divers, and there are always at least a few that are terrified, and even more that are clueless and are just waiting for Darwin to take them out of the gene pool.

This generally doesn't happen with the longer classes because the class takes more of a commitment from the student and the instructors (at least the good instructors) will not certify someone before they're ready. Some students learn quickly and have a C-card in seven weeks, some take eight, some take a year. however by the time the student gets their card, we're confident that they can go diving with a buddy and come back alive and happy.

Now, look also at the availability of scuba gear and the relative cost, based on a much larger market. Would we have nearly so many manufacturers and shops if people still had to get trained the 1975 way before they could do an open water dive?

There are a lot of manufacturers and shops because the industry is built on selling equipment to new divers, and there is a pretty good supply of new divers. However a quick check of eBay will show you how many never dive again.

Terry

 

[lyonsce]

First let me say I was certified in 1976 and took the PADI Search and Rescue course in 1977 while at the University of Georgia. I took my PADI AOW in 2003 (cause some dive boats required AOW).

We had the whole harassment/hell day treatment (jump in put on gear, have the instructor turn off air, pull off mask, put tin foil in mask and go through all the drills not being able to see, etc) As much as I don't think this helped me master the skills, it DID boost my confidence in being able to do the skills. (We did lose about half our class). We also learned a bunch of things that are no longer taught (buddy breathing). In my check out dives (that's what they were called then) I had to do a CESA from 60ft with the instructor.

I don't know if these things were required or even recommended at the time, but I had to do them to certify. As far as the knowledge, we had scheduled evening classes every week and covered many topics that are now taught as specialties. We had to be able to plan deco dives, deep dives, (Nitrox was not available then). We did learn about gas mixes and the theory, but we didn't actually do any of the planning for gas mixes or do any dives on mix.

IMHO, I think that courses today should go into a little more detail on the theories so that divers understand why they do the things they do, not just what they need to do, but I think that the information is there and if you want to find it you can. It all comes down to how good an instructor you had and how much you want to learn. SB is a good place to get many different opinions and is good to stimulate your learning...

Chuck

 

[Web Monkey]

I don't know how they ever managed to equalize in those old oval masks.

They look weird, but actually equalize and clear beautifully, as long as you have good neck flexibility for tilting your head back.

Buoyancy was set by weight belts (no BCDs), and the divers set it up for what they figured would be average buoyancy for the dive. Part of the time, they could be working to stay up at a given depth, or working to stay down.

The tanks were smaller and the wetsuits had less buoyancy change, so this wasn't generally a big issue, but did require accurate weighting, which greatly improves buoyancy and trim.

Pressure guages and dive computers weren't yet available, and much of the empirical knowledge we have now was being learned the hard way.

The dives were shallower and shorter and the regs would breathe hard as the tank pressure dropped, so it was no big deal to just surface when the dive was over.

Do you know how much training my Dad had to undergo to work with computers back in the late 60s and early 70s? The computers he worked with are barely shadows of the ones we have today, and high school kids are writing more complicated programs than Dad ever wrote with his college degree. Shall we declare that no one can work on a computer without a degree, because my Dad had to get one before he worked on computers?

Considering that I graduated high school in 75, and have been writing computer software ever since, I feel qualified to answer this. The computers were slower with less resources (RAM/disk, etc.) back then.

The software was less complicated back then because less complicated meant fewer bugs and easier maintenance, and there was no room for bloatware anyway. Software is more complicated now because marketing demands it. If you have 10 "features" and your competitor has 20, you'll be out of business soon. It doesn't matter if your product completes it's task perfectly and your competitor's does a terrible job and crashes. More features and cooler-looking wins.

A college degree in computer science is worth exactly what it was worth in 1975, which is somewhere around "moderately useful". Math hasn't changed and there have been few advances in Algorithms and Data Structures that weren't covered in Knuth. Actual languages and technologies come and go, and it's pretty much a crap-shoot as to whether the stuff you learned in school (aside from the math) is worth anything at all to your employer.

I have no doubt that high-school kids are writing more complicated programs than your dad. Your dad's programs had to work. The kid's programs don't. Your dad's programs had to be documented and understandable by others, as well as be fixable at 3am by another programmer when the airlines find that they can't sell tickets or the utility company can't bill customers.

Complicated isn't a mark of honor it's an admission of guilt and lack of definition and understanding of the requirements.

Terry

 

[Fred Calhoun]

Name's Calhoun. New at this business of e-mailing (if that's what I'm doing).
Not sure you muised anything. But - the focus these days by dive shop oriented scuba courses is to show people how to use scuba gear (the more tghe better), trather than to produce a comfortable beginner diver. All you need do is look at new "lately" scubas and count the hoses and the weights and the dangerous stuff they've been convinced to schlepp on their bodies. Or the danmgerous things they've been taught to do (like drag their masks to wrap around their necks (need to take the regulator out of your mouth, then you can't use it and you can't use your snorkel).

Calhoun

 

[Fred Calhoun]

What's a primary donation?

Calhoun

For that matter, what ever are 'wings'? Are these the things that float you face down?

Haven't seen a crotch strap in years

Where is this fellow with these unusal sounding things?

Calhoun (again)

 

[Walter]

Okay, so I'm a rank newbie whose opinion might not count for much anyway. Take it for what it's worth.

Your opinion is worth as much as anyone's. Your knowledge of the topic might be a little lacking.

What I've noticed in reading through my PADI text, what we are being taught is recreational diving, as opposed to the more detailed professional diving training that was once the norm.

Nope. Recreational has always been the norm.

I don't anticipate ever needing to descend to extreme depths with an underwater welding kit and the task of repairing part of an oil rig. I seriously doubt I will be called upon at any time in my life to dive to a downed military aircraft, with the mission of retrieving COMSEC equipment from that wreck before agents of an unfriendly country get it.

No changes there. Underwater welding and retreiving COMSEC equipment has never been part of the training standards. Where did you come up with this?

I will be diving for fun, and that's what I'm currently learning.

That's what we've always been teaching. There's no change there.