DUI Weight and Trim

[Jerryg]

Excuse me if this question has been asked, but I have searched and cannot locate any info on the DUI Weight and Trim harness. I'm interested in finding out if this system is compatable with the DIR philosophy. I intend to take the DIR-F class in March and do not want to spend money on something I won't use. My reason for asking about this is that I need an awful lot of lead on my weight belt 26# in a dry suit. Also during my dry suit class I had a weight integrated BC with all the weight in it. During the drill where we had to remove the BC I shot to the surface like a cork and my BC went to the bottom like a rock. I now have a Al B/P with wings and a weight belt. I've balance my weight so I am horizontal and have moved the weight around so that the BC and me are both independantly close to neutral. I'm currently diving single AL80's and realize that moving to doubles, steel etc will change everything. But if the DUI system is compatable it would certainly fullfill all my current and future needs. Thanks for your response

 

[pants!]

I don't think any instructors will mind much, but the best way to find out how "allowed" it is to fire off an email to your potential instructor.

In my opinion there are probably better ways. SS backplate + channel weight alone will knock 12 pounds or so off your weight belt, too. 12-14 pounds on a weight belt is much more manageable than 26.

 

[BigJetDriver]

Jerry,

I will let the DIR/GUE instructors tell you whether or not the Weight and Trim is "permitted". I have a feeling that it is, because, from the comments I have read lately, the system is not as inflexible as some make it out to be.

It is an efficient and comfortable system which works well for recreational and technical diving. It holds a little, or a lot of weight. You can postition it high or low, but in either case it keeps the weight off the small of your back. I find it to be so comfortable that I forget I have it on.

A nice feature is the capability, if you need to do so, of being able to dump half of whatever weight you have in it very easily. Just grab the rip-cord handle and punch straight out.

(Just as a note, there ARE instances where you will not be able to "swim your rig up" without being able to ditch some weight!)

Just my PPO2's worth.

Cheers, and happy diving!

Rob

 

[Derek S]

Hi Jerry,

I can speak to this as I have firsthand experience with the DUI W&T system. One of the main tenets of the DIR system is to create a "thinking diver". So, to that end, whenever a new piece of gear is added to the DIR configuration, 2 questions must be asked:

1) How does this piece of equipment enhance the dive?

2) How does it impact the rest of the system?

Your answers may vary, but here is what I came up with:

1) No, the W&T does not enhance the dive, it is an alternative to wearing a traditional weightbelt.

2) I found the W&T to be better for my back, but unfortunately, was too bulky and got in the way of my being able to see my SPG by just looking down & back (while completely horizontal of course), among other things.

As pants! pointed out, wearing a weighted STA (singles) or a v-weight (doubles), cam band weight pockets or even a heavier BP are other options, and IMHO, better choices.

Trust me, once you take the Fundies class, you'll learn how woefully overweighted you are, and how moving that weight from a belt to your back (in one form or another as listed above) is a much easier approach. I too was wearing nearly 26lbs of weight when I started with my drysuit, but am down to 10lbs (including SS BP).

Besides, for what the W&T will cost you, you could get a weighted STA and some cam-band weight pockets.

Dive safe and good luck. I look forward to hearing how your Fundies class goes!

 

[pants!]

I have not used the thing so I can't comment specifically on it.. however, it is my feeling that taking lead off the weight belt by moving ballst into the backplate and channel weight or weighted STA, and keeping the weight belt at a much reduced weight, is probably a better option and is therefore the proper DIR route.

Again, speak to your instructor.

 

[Derek S]

I'm not a big proponent of ditchable weight. I personally believe that the current structure of OW teaching is geared towards a "dump and go" mentality. Am I saying that instructors are telling people to just drop weight at the first sign of trouble? No, but it plants the seed in people's head.

IMO, if a diver can't swim up a rig from depth, then how is having the ability to dump ballast going to fix this? If one has a competent buddy/teammate and a a minimal amount of physical prowess, they should be able to get out of the situation. If not, maybe they should consider another sport.

 

[BigJetDriver]

I'm not a big proponent of ditchable weight. I personally believe that the current structure of OW teaching is geared towards a "dump and go" mentality. Am I saying that instructors are telling people to just drop weight at the first sign of trouble? No, but it plants the seed in people's head.

IMO, if a diver can't swim up a rig from depth, then how is having the ability to dump ballast going to fix this? If one has a competent buddy/teammate and a a minimal amount of physical prowess, they should be able to get out of the situation. If not, maybe they should consider another sport.

As Msr. Pants has pointed out, the "best solution" is to trim your whole system as near to neutral as possible. That should be your constant effort. As your needs and tactical situation change, then so should your weighting program.

As a Public Safety Diver, I have found divers on the bottom with their weights still on, so I guess the darned "seed planted in their poor little head" didn't sprout like it should have.

As I pointed out, there ARE times when having ditchable weight in the system, especially if it is easy to ditch it in smaller amounts, is not only valuable, but could be necessary.

To paraphrase Mr. Natural: "Get the right weighting system for the job, Kids!" :doctor:

As for the last comment above, I could be snotty and say that any diver with enough brains to understand the practicalities and physics of the problem should understand that what I say is true. If not, maybe they should consider another sport. I refuse, though, to be so condescending.

 

[Derek S]

Big (may I call you Big?

),


I agree, neutrality is something that is a constantly evolving struggle. Divers should go with what works best for them, but if a diver wants to stay within the confines of their GUE training and the DIR philosophy, then they don't have as much lateral movement as "Joe Everydiver".

I'm not saying that there are not instances where ditchable weight is not the right answer, because as you well know, it can mean the difference between life and death. I'd be willing to wager though that the GUE trained contingency of the diving populace are much less likely to need ditchable weight.

Of course you always want the right tool for the job. I just don't see how having ditchable weight at 100ffw/fsw solves a fundamental flaw in basic buddy skills, ect.

I apologize if I sounded condescending, as it wasn't my direct intention so much as I wanted to point out that ditching ballast in the throes of a panic attack (real or perceived) can be worse or create more problems than having non-ditchable weight.

As Msr. Pants has pointed out, the "best solution" is to trim your whole system as near to neutral as possible. That should be your constant effort. As your needs and tactical situation change, then so should your weighting program.

As a Public Safety Diver, I have found divers on the bottom with their weights still on, so I guess the darned "seed planted in their poor little head" didn't sprout like it should have.

As I pointed out, there ARE times when having ditchable weight in the system, especially if it is easy to ditch it in smaller amounts, is not only valuable, but could be necessary.

To paraphrase Mr. Natural: "Get the right weighting system for the job, Kids!" :doctor:

As for the last comment above, I could be snotty and say that any diver with enough brains to understand the practicalities and physics of the problem should understand that what I say is true. If not, maybe they should consider another sport. I refuse, though, to be so condescending.

 

[Jerryg]

I'm watching and studying your comments. I'm thinking that both the BC and the Diver need to be as close to neutral as possible. Of course allowing for the changes due to compression and air consumption. But if you know and understand these dynamic changes that occur during diving you should be able to balance everything. My problem lies in the difficulty to keep the darn belt on when I'm wearing my 7mm farmer john and feeling like the pilsbury dough boy.

 

[pants!]

I'm watching and studying your comments. I'm thinking that both the BC and the Diver need to be as close to neutral as possible. Of course allowing for the changes due to compression and air consumption. But if you know and understand these dynamic changes that occur during diving you should be able to balance everything. My problem lies in the difficulty to keep the darn belt on when I'm wearing my 7mm farmer john and feeling like the pilsbury dough boy.

If you get a heavy plate and a weighted STA, you can have say 16 pounds invested in the backplate setup itself, so you'd only have to keep a 10 lb belt on. A 10 lb belt is barely noticeable.