Du'an Guangxi China Cave Diving Accident

[nimoh]

Hi
The mention of meeting some people who did things you want to do is a good point but it seems to me that this accident is "just" the result of a panic which could happen to anybody at anytime.
Yes training and practice are there to tell us how to respond but in real situations so many factors are involved that I believe the same person in the same situation would have different reactions according to some indeterminate factors which would trigger a different reaction. Indeed luck is also part of the equation
Jle

I think a major factor of panic is not knowing what to do given a situation and a person with more training and experience on a dive such as this would be more likely to have rational responses to problems, and also an increased capacity to prevent problems.

 

[Diver0001]

Hi
it seems to me that this accident is "just" the result of a panic which could happen to anybody at anytime.

Well.... The emotions the surviving diver described at various points in the dive came across to me as frank and honest. I'm sure this dive would have been a very intense experience even if everyone had survived it. I didn't read it as panic so much as I read it as a diver who recognized -- at least on a subconscious level -- that he was WAY out of his comfort zone.

It's one of the reasons that I concluded from the incident report that they were over-reaching.

R..

 

[PfcAJ]

I think planning to use backgas on a dive like that cuts reserves too thin. Sure, they planned to dive "1/3", but that doesn't leave much margin in terms of TIME to sort out an issue.

 

[TSandM]

I think Diver0001 is right.

This story reminds me of what I was told about a cave diving death a long time ago in Florida. The diver was doing what was for him, at that time, a big dive -- he made an error, got confused about his options, and died with gas in his tanks. The fact is that dives like that one, or this one, are complex -- you have a lot of equipment attached to you, and your contingency plans are complicated. At that depth, even with high helium mixes, you are also probably operating with an elevated CO2 level which will go far higher very quickly if you become anxious or allow your breathing pattern to shallow out. (Breathing gas exhibits some strange dynamics in the lung at those densities.).

From the account, it sounds as though the survivor was frightened but remained rational and in control; the dead diver lost his equanimity and failed to make effective use of all of his options.

I don't know how many work up dives these guys did to prepare for this, but it doesn't sound as though it was many, nor does it sound as though they had a lot of experience with this type of pinnacle dive. Anybody pushing limits to the degree these guys did has to know the margins are thin and the prices can be high.

There is an eerie resemblance to David Shaw here.

 

[Diver0001]

There is an eerie resemblance to David Shaw here.

This thought had crossed my mind as well.

R..

 

[PhatD1ver]

i speak (and read) Chinese, so let me help a little. Tao wasn't delayed they burned thru their gas too quickly and he started sharing off of Yuan at 130bar, but between the two of them at that depth, it was only good for 3-4 minutes... so Yuan and Tao began ascending more quickly to get to 75m bottles... but about 15m away, Yuan checked his gauges and depth and looked down to see Tao 'floating away' and tried to grab him, Tao made no effort to reach to him or grab the rope... Yuan tried to go down after him, almost 19m but could not find him, at this point the need for air forced him to go get his other tank and then he went back down again looking for Tao...

I'm not a cave diver, and this kind of story make me wonder if I ever want to be... but I also want to comment on something else that was a factor here... I have lived among the Chinese for many years, and I don't want over generalize, but they are amazingly gifted with natural abilities that other people in western cultures strive all their lives to develop... golf is one example, gymnastics, etc....

Along with this comes a mentality, an almost disregard for reality when it comes to risky situations... in the words of the they Chinese themselves "we are not afraid of death"... and I have met these people, they drive luxury cars we treat with respect and love like wild men... they chase women and have four or five mistresses at a time to brag...

And they dive deep, so they can claim the fame and notoriety that comes with it, and they will often push the limits rather than make the necessary preparations... the sad part is, the Du'An dive base has all the support systems they could have asked for. They had the resources available to properly prep and plan.. what they didn't have was rebreathers when they really should have for their dive plan... but this is the mentality is that because they had been down before, and had a few dives, they weren't afraid.

Conditions were terrible, I've read the description of this site in Advanced Diving Magazine... they should have just waited for another time after the flow improved and the water cleared some.

Anyway, this is what scares me about diving with these guys, either they are very strict, or they test the limits of safety to try and prove how brave they are.

All that said, what has been said before is that they probably were under qualified, and certainly under planned for this and the result was one of them died, and the other should have but for a little good luck...

On a separate note, I'd like some of the cavers to comment on what you would do at the point that you lost your buddy in this way and your reserves were chewed up... do you do like Yuan and go after someone who is obviously by this point drowned, and risk you own life? Do you use their air to make your ascent correctly so you don't get injured further?

 

[alewar]

I have lived among the Chinese for many years, and I don't want over generalize, but they are amazingly gifted with natural abilities that other people in western cultures strive all their lives to develop... golf is one example, gymnastics, etc....

Along with this comes a mentality, an almost disregard for reality when it comes to risky situations... in the words of the they Chinese themselves "we are not afraid of death"... and I have met these people, they drive luxury cars we treat with respect and love like wild men... they chase women and have four or five mistresses at a time to brag...

To be fair, the same could be said about most young people in countries with economic problems and lack of perspectives. Just search in Youtube for Russian teens climbing towers and you'll see what fearlessness means...
From the interviews I've read, I didn't get the impression that the divers acted arrogantly, even though they underestimated the difficulty of the dive. I'm also not so sure about the availability of an adequate support team as you state. Are there so many qualified cave divers there?

 

[medtechdvr]

China is starting to open up as a diving market - but there are very few cave divers there - much less actually trained qualified cave divers.

The two in this case at least had the training and foresight to plan, which is better than most in the Asian region. Unfortunately, most caves in China are still at the exploratory stage, so I'd expect more accidents to occur in the future as more OW divers start looking to this as one of their options (esp. with the way PADI has their so called "cave" course. Much like most of Southeast Asia, these caves in China don't have guidelines or signs warning OW divers to go away. The danger here is quite real.