DSS single tank rig questions

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O'Malley

Contributor
Messages
533
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Location
Chicago (West Loop)
# of dives
500 - 999
The purchase of a drysuit this spring not only allowed me to begin diving much earlier locally but also exposed me to the technical realm of diving...and the itch to go this route is becoming intense. I am considering the DSS single tank rig w/ the 40# wing and hog harness. I currently own a pair of PST E7-100 cylinders but not ready to double them up presently so...

  • Are H valves a good option and is there a specific one compatable for the PST tanks rated 3442 PSI?
I am also slightly confused about weighting. I currently dive a BARE XCD2 Tech (2mm hypercompressed neoprene) drysuit, SP Knighthawk BCD and require 24#'s of weight. The backplate-mounted weights from DSS seem to be a good option.
  • What are the thoughts out there on this vs wieght pockets, weight belt?
I read somewhere that most BCD's are 3#'s positively buoyant and according to the DSS backplate specifications, the plate is 5#'s negative. Add the 8.1# backplate-mounted weights and...I still may require approximately another 8#'s of lead based on my limited knowledge of backplates and weighting.
 
O'Malley,

I have a DSS single tank rig, so I figured I would respond, although I have limited experiences with it. FYI, when I was considering my purchase, I contacted Tobin at DSS through email at info@deepseasupply.com and their website at www.deepseasupply.com. He was very helpful in answering any specific questions I had about the rig and how it would work with my current gear, and was a very nice person to deal with in general.

I am a novice diver, only 14 dives since I was certified, so keep my lack of experience in mind. 6 of these dives have been with my DSS single tank rig, 4 in warm water 2 in cold water. My firt 2 warm water dives were in Texas with no exposure protection, swim trunks only. I found that I did not need any weight in addition to the backplate to keep proper bouyancy throughout the dives. I prefer to use ditchable weight so I bought a 3mm wetsuit before my next 2 warm water dives in Turks & Caicos. The single tank rig backplate is approx 6lbs neg, and I used the dive boats weights and weightbelt for ditchable weight. I used 2-5 lb weights with my 3mm wetsuit, with the weights positioned on the front of each hip. This configuration worked perfectly for keeping good stable trim throughout both dives.

Since you are from the Chicago area you are probably more interested in the cold water dive experiences. I dove once at Cape Elizabeth,Maine and once at Blue Springs Quarry near Shelbyville, IN. Both of these dives I used full 7mm farmer John, hood, gloves, boots. Both dives I had the 8 lb weight plates attached to the SS backplate to reduce ditchable weight. In Maine I was using a rental aluminum 80 tank with 34lb total weight in salt water, the rig is 14 and I used a 10 on the front of each hip. This was too much weight, but it was my first salt water dive in full 7mm and didnt want to be underweighted. In Indiana fresh water I used my Steel Worthinton 100, with 22lb total weght, the rig is 14 and I used a 4 on the front of each hip.

The weight plates are wonderful for getting weight off your weight belt, basically you are taking 8 lbs off your belt which makes it easier to get on and off. But there is a caveat. I chock this up to my lack experience and limited use of the equipment, I am still learning. In my limited experience the position of the weight on your weight belt will dramatically affect your attitude and trim in the water. In maine I was using a pouch style weight belt with the weight distributed around my sides. The first thing I noticed was it was difficut to get face down horizontal. The natural position of my rig put me with my face to the sky and my body at about a 30 degree down angle with my feet higher in the water than my head. It was not difficult to correct my position but it wasnt a comfortable feeling. To correct this I found that I just needed all the weight on my belt in front of my hips. Once I found out where to properly position the ditchable weight everything became easy, and I had a wonderful dive and saw hundreds of lobster and crab.

I had the same issue a few weeks ago in the quary in Indiana. The 14 lbs on your back plus the weight of the tank has a tendency to roll you over facing up, this is with no air in the wing. This was my first dive with the rig, with weight plates, in fresh water, with full 7mm exposure protection. So this was my dive where I get to figure out all the proper weighting for bouyancy and trim. Once again when I figured out how much weight I needed and were to position it properly, everything became easy. I was horizontal, bouyancy was good, and trim was good, and I could enjoy the dive without worrying about the weight anymore.

I also purchases a DUI weight harness. The instructor/guide I was with in Maine had one of these. I thought it looked neat so I bought one to try it out. It is basically a harness that you put on before you don your BP/W. It has pouches on the front of each hip with a top entry velcro closure. You just open the pouch and drop your soft or hard weight in the pouch. It has yellow quick release handles that ditch the weight out the bottom of the pouch in an emergency. In my limited experience there are both pros and cons to this device. It is easy to put on and adjust, its nice to just slide the weights in the pocket before you get in the water. You can take additional weights with you if your wife is cronically underweighted :). And you can use the pockets to hold other stuff until you have to dump your weights, theoretically you won't have to. The only drawback is the additional adjustment straps floating around, 2 suspender type adjutments and one belt adjustment. If you use a Hogarthian harness this will be less confusing for you, I have the pro-fit harness which makes it an issue for me. The only reason I bought the harness was due to the amount of weight I had to carry in cold salt water. I doubt I will use it again in fresh water.

In summary
The DSS single tank rig is very nice and I am very hapy with it. The weight plates are great for getting some of the weight off your belt, just be aware that you will have to play with the amount of weight on your belt and how you position it for proper trim especially in fresh water where you will have less weight on your belt. It seems that it eas easier to achieve a good balance of weight distributing it both on your back and belt, rather than having it all on a belt. You have a ton more diving experience than I do, but hopefully something I have said here will help you a little. I will say that what little diving experience I have, has become much more enjoyable with my own DSS rig than it was using he different rental BC's. Jacket style BC's annoyed me and I could never get them adjuted just right. With the BP/W once its adjusted properly, it feels like its not even there, and I have more freedom of movement in the front of my body.

Chris Henry
 
From the sound of it, your weighting sounds similar to mine. I got the weight plates and love them, I do have tank trim pockets on the tank bands so when I switch to an AL80 I'll toss 3 lbs in each side.

I have 6 lbs on my weight belt and no other lead.

Here's how it breaks down;

BP/W and weight plate ~-13 lbs
Lead weights on belt ~-6 lbs
Steel tank (empty) ~-2 lbs

So I have about 21 lbs of weight at the end of a dive and to be honest I'm a couple heavy. You have 3 more lbs than that so I'd just put it on the belt, or maybe a tank band will work. It all depends on how your trim is.

Can't comment on your tanks as mine are Genesis and I don't dive doubles. I'll bet after switching you weight out like me, I had 25 lbs before the switch.
 
O'Malley:
The purchase of a drysuit this spring not only allowed me to begin diving much earlier locally but also exposed me to the technical realm of diving...and the itch to go this route is becoming intense. I am considering the DSS single tank rig w/ the 40# wing and hog harness. I currently own a pair of PST E7-100 cylinders but not ready to double them up presently so...

  • Are H valves a good option and is there a specific one compatable for the PST tanks rated 3442 PSI?

Since others have tackled the weighting, I'll take a stab at the other part. I am a newbie myself in many respects so take this with a grain of salt.

When I got interested in doing some more "advanced" diving, I asked about the H-Valve as I was sure I wanted one. Eventually, a lot of very experienced technical divers talked me out of it. And looking back on it, I'm glad they did. The idea of the H-Valve is to give piece of mind in case of gear failure. And they do that pretty well. But they don't protect you from tank failure. So in that regard, it's half a solution. If you REALLY do get to technical diving, the H-Valve will have no place. So to that end, it's a dead-end solution. A stop-gap if you will.

My personal recommendation, being new on the path to technical diving, is to forgo the H-Valve and either dive the single, or step up to doubles. For me, moving to doubles was a revelation. The extra gas, the stability, everything. I've only used my single once since going to doubles. The difference is amazing. Your weighting problems will disappear. The tanks you have will likely make a nice doubled pair. All you'll need is a manifold, valves, and bands. A few hundred dollars. And of course, a bit of training with them.

I know you said you're not ready to do this yet, so wait if you want. But personally, I wouldn't go the H-Valve route.
 
O'Malley:
I am considering the DSS single tank rig w/ the 40# wing and hog harness.

You may or may not need a 40# wing for a single tank with your setup...I second the suggestion to call and speak with Tobin. He will give you straight advice.

BTW, how do you like the XCD2? Does the compressed neoprene provide any noticeable insulation value? I'm considering switching from my 6mm neoprene drysuit to a compressed/crushed neoprene suit, either the Bare, or DUI CF200.
 
PerroneFord:
The tanks you have will likely make a nice doubled pair. All you'll need is a manifold, valves, and bands. A few hundred dollars. And of course, a bit of training with them.
I know you said you're not ready to do this yet, so wait if you want. But personally, I wouldn't go the H-Valve route.

The manifold, valves and bands for my doubles was significantly more than a few hundred dollars and don't even get me started about the training. I love my doubles too, but an H-valve and the proper equipment configuration is appropriate for someone who is not ready to make the leap to doubles. I still dive a single tank with H-valve configuration on some shallower dives.
 
Hmmm...

http://www.diveriteexpress.com/gas/bands.shtml

Bands for 8-Inch Diameter Cyl $125

http://www.diveriteexpress.com/gas/mvs.shtml

Manifold w/Isolator, 300-BAR $229


http://www.diveriteexpress.com/gas/thermo.shtml

H-Valve, DIN 300-BAR, Right Hand (typical side) $155


How much did you pay for your manifold, valves, and bands? Was is much more than this?

As for diving the single tank with an H-Valve, I know several people who do. One of the best dive buddies I ever had did as well. If it works for you.. do it.
 
When added up that is $510, which is significantly more than "a few hundred dollars". I am probably splitting hairs though. I just wanted to make the point that doubles are not an inexpensive proposition. I certainly wouldn't want to go back to diving a single all the time though.
 
O'Malley:
The purchase of a drysuit this spring not only allowed me to begin diving much earlier locally but also exposed me to the technical realm of diving...and the itch to go this route is becoming intense. I am considering the DSS single tank rig w/ the 40# wing and hog harness. I currently own a pair of PST E7-100 cylinders but not ready to double them up presently so...

  • Are H valves a good option and is there a specific one compatable for the PST tanks rated 3442 PSI?
I am also slightly confused about weighting. I currently dive a BARE XCD2 Tech (2mm hypercompressed neoprene) drysuit, SP Knighthawk BCD and require 24#'s of weight. The backplate-mounted weights from DSS seem to be a good option.
  • What are the thoughts out there on this vs wieght pockets, weight belt?
I read somewhere that most BCD's are 3#'s positively buoyant and according to the DSS backplate specifications, the plate is 5#'s negative. Add the 8.1# backplate-mounted weights and...I still may require approximately another 8#'s of lead based on my limited knowledge of backplates and weighting.

O'Malley,

First "H" valves. I have them, and use them on my single tanks. Keeps my regulator set essentially the same for single tanks and doubles. If you purchase a right hand modular valve, and a left hand modular valve and the right and left hand "H" inserts you will have 2/3's of a manifold (all you need is the center isolator) if and when you are ready for doubles. If you know you are headed for doubles you might want to purchase a complete manifold (right, left and Iso) + the "H" inserts. Often you can get a better deal on a complete manifold, and you need not worry about getting compatible parts in the future.

Regarding Lift and weighting:

Minimum lift is determined by weight of your rig at the surface without you in it, and / or by the initial buoyancy of your exposure suit.

You can easily estimate the weight of your rig, i.e. Full tank(s) + Regs + plate + can light + other ballast etc. All these weights are known, and you can get a number that's pretty close.

The initial buoyancy of your suit can be determined by getting in the pool with just your undergarment and suit. Vent out the gas until you have the minimum in your suit.
Add lead until you are neutral. This amount of weight represents the maximum possible you can loose in a total suit flood.

Which ever of these two values is greater sets the minimum wing lift you need.

I always recommend that people new to BP&W first determine their total weighting, then their trim weighting.

In a single tank, and generous thermal protection (not a dive skin or 3 mil) I shoot for being eyelevel at the surface with no gas in my wing and a full tank. I rely on the compression of the exposure suit to offset the gas I breathe during the dive. This is allows me to hold a shallow stop.

Checking your total weight at the surface with a full tank is generally easier than at 15 ft and 500 psi. Doing it at the edge of the pool. deck, swimstep, etc. allows small adjustments to be made.

Once you have a total weight determined you can play around with where this weight should be for best horizontal trim. Having some temporary weights like ankle weights or soft weights you can move around or zip tie to the edge of the plate helps. Ankle weights can be wrapped around the neck of the tank.

You may find that all the extra XX lbs you need can be carried in a belt, or you may find that you need more weight higher on your torso, everybody is different. Tank type and tank position also plays a part. I set my tank height where I have the best access to the valve, and adjust trim weighting around this position.

I'd recommend checking total weighting and trim weighting before purchasing the bolt on weight plates.

Let me know if you have other questions.


Tobin
 
sbushong:
When added up that is $510, which is significantly more than "a few hundred dollars". I am probably splitting hairs though. I just wanted to make the point that doubles are not an inexpensive proposition. I certainly wouldn't want to go back to diving a single all the time though.

Doubles aren't cheap, but you don't need bands, a manifold and H's for set. Just bands and a manifold, ~$350.


Tobin
 

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