DS-125 vs. DS-50

[RonFrank]

Still looking at equipment... sigh...

So a couple questions on these strobes.

Is there a difference between the TTL cords for the 50 vs. 125, or are they the same model?

How useful is having a modeling light UW?

Can one adjust the Flash exposure level in TTL mode? For example, on my Nikon Dedicated flash units, I can adjust the exposure compensation of the FLASH to -2 which would provide TTL flash at 2 stops less than the ambiant light meter reading.

Why are these damn things so expensive!!! OK, nevermind.

Does any manufacture make a flash system that has an *auto* mode. This is RATHER standard on even the least expensive land flashes, but I have not seen this very *useful* feature in UW strobes....

I have not decided on even a camera yet. Ikelite would make it MUCH easier on them selves IF they had flashes with a few more standard features, and/or if they supported Nikon DSLR TTL...

Any comments are appreciated.

Ron

 

[chippy]

The cords are the same

Modelling light is great as a night dive torch, but i find it scares macro subjects away if used as a modelling light.

Yes you can adjust the output, the same way as you stated.

Expensive - all about demand and cost of development. Just think how many DS125's get sold worldwide, compared to the amount of Oly C5050's that were sold. Although UWP is getting more popular with the arrival of digital, it's still fairly specialised so a smaller customer base means less buyers to spread development and manufacturing costs over.

I can't really think of any other features that I'd like on My DS125's - a bit lighter in weight would be nice though!

 

[ChrisM]

"Auto" refers to what is called TTL. In layman's terms, the camera judges how much light is needed and quenches the strobe once proper exposure is achieved.... on land. Now add ports and lots of water between the camera and the subject, and the equation shifts dramatically.

While some manufacturers are working on ttl and various versions of same (ettl, dttl), I believe the Fuji S2 is the only DSLR that has it, and Ikelite housings and strobes allow for it with some cameras. I am not up on that technology at all, since I have only ever shot manual strobes.

Note that ttl will be useful for macro, but not for WA, since the camera will way overexpose the pic because of all that blue out there.

I also read a report by a friend that took Stepehn Frink's (photo pro) class down in Florida. He noted that all photogs - even though they had the S2 and ttl available - ended up shooting manual strobes by the end of the first day.

Some people like it, some people hate it. Many higher end phtogs that I know don't use it.

Chris

 

[f3nikon]

Still looking at equipment... sigh...

So a couple questions on these strobes.

Is there a difference between the TTL cords for the 50 vs. 125, or are they the same model?

How useful is having a modeling light UW?

Can one adjust the Flash exposure level in TTL mode? For example, on my Nikon Dedicated flash units, I can adjust the exposure compensation of the FLASH to -2 which would provide TTL flash at 2 stops less than the ambiant light meter reading.

Why are these damn things so expensive!!! OK, nevermind.

Does any manufacture make a flash system that has an *auto* mode. This is RATHER standard on even the least expensive land flashes, but I have not seen this very *useful* feature in UW strobes....

I have not decided on even a camera yet. Ikelite would make it MUCH easier on them selves IF they had flashes with a few more standard features, and/or if they supported Nikon DSLR TTL...

Any comments are appreciated.

Ron

http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/sync_cord_d1x.html on the strobe end it’s the standard Ikelite 5 pin TTL.

Modelling light for the most part useless in bright tropical waters, as chippy said, for a night dive torch… some use in dark overhangs. Although on a night dive I would not risk using up the strobe batteries for a dive light and I do not shoot wide angle at night. The wide-angle strobes are the ones with the modeling light.

Adjustable TTL on the strobe independent of the ambient light meter, no but then Ike may have something new. I think this would be just another U/W switch on the strobe that could leak. Its just as fast adjusting the aperture in manual mode to control the exposure.

I am looking for that elusive “auto” button on U/W strobes myself. My “auto” button would have auto exposure, auto focus, auto composition, auto strobe positioning, auto battery change, auto memory change, auto scuba tank change, auto whale shark and manta ray appearance and auto anti jetlag.

The BIG problem I have with DSLRs for U/W use is the viewfinder, No Actionfinder/ Speedfinder! I called Nikon they have no plans on making a DSLR with a removable viewfinder, like their F series film cameras.

This is a problem because you cannot get your eyeballs within ½ an inch of the viewfinder. There is a large gap between your eyes and the dive mask then the mask and the housing and finally the housing and the camera. There is no way I am going back to the viewfinder magnifier screw ons they had with the film SLRs.

Nikon said the LCD is of no use before taking the picture because the DSLR Mirror is in the way! Until someone comes up with a DSLR Actionfinder, I am keeping my F3/F4s for Micro work (for selecting which eyeball on a fish or a shrimp you want in focus), Wide-angle because I can go wider than a Olympus 8080 without the add-on wide-angle lens. The 8080 will have to be an “in between” medium angle, fish portrait camera.

Who knows, I may use the 8080 as a “Polaroid back” meaning to shoot with the 8080 first, check the exposure and strobe aiming on the LCD, then take the final picture with the film cameras.

Or just take up another hobby!

 

[RonFrank]

Auto is NOT TTL. In auto mode the flash basically has it's own sensor, and adjusts the flash output based on the aperture setting of the camera, or flash (depending on the model).

The *TTL* that is advertised as TTL withOUT a sync cord I suppose COULD be called auto (or maybe should be) but it's NOT TTL as there is ZERO communication between the camera and flash (other then the camera flash triggering the strobe) and the strobe is NOT measured through the lens but by an external sensor.

So maybe you have answered my question, but AUTO would be in ADDITION to TTL NOT something that mimicks TTL for those cameras without a sync cord.

As to the benifits, I understand them. For land shooting I find TTL very useful in fill applications, but less so if the strobe is the main light source.

For UW applications however it does sound like having the manual mode is good.

As for DTTL, and iTTL (nikon), Ikelite does NOT support them. It does appear to support E-TTL (Canon) as there are TTL sync cords available for the 20D.

TTL UW seems like the way to go ASSUMING that one can control the exposure compensation on the flash. If not it's kinda useless if there are any metering situations where the camera is fooled (IOW's a LOT).

Ron

"Auto" refers to what is called TTL. In layman's terms, the camera judges how much light is needed and quenches the strobe once proper exposure is achieved.... on land. Now add ports and lots of water between the camera and the subject, and the equation shifts dramatically.

While some manufacturers are working on ttl and various versions of same (ettl, dttl), I believe the Fuji S2 is the only DSLR that has it, and Ikelite housings and strobes allow for it with some cameras. I am not up on that technology at all, since I have only ever shot manual strobes.

Note that ttl will be useful for macro, but not for WA, since the camera will way overexpose the pic because of all that blue out there.

I also read a report by a friend that took Stepehn Frink's (photo pro) class down in Florida. He noted that all photogs - even though they had the S2 and ttl available - ended up shooting manual strobes by the end of the first day.

Some people like it, some people hate it. Many higher end phtogs that I know don't use it.

Chris

 

[RonFrank]

Yes you can adjust the output, the same way as you stated.

So if I shoot in TTL mode with my Gizmo X camera, and view a historgram, and the image is blown out by flash, I can then adjust the DS-125 to reduce the exposure by some amount while remaining in TTL mode, and reshoot?

What increments is that adjustment done in (1/3 stop for example)?

Thanks,
Ron

 

[ChrisM]

All right, fine whatever.... Remind me not to try and be helpful and answer any of your questions (and btw, there is an "auto" setting on the camera for the inboard flash, since your post was abut strobes that's what I believed you were referring to ... silly me)

btw, the S2 is ttl WITH a sync cord ,.......

And what's with all the shouting?

And oh yeah, whether manual mode is good UW,LOL, well, I suppoose you oughtta look at some websites with pics where all strobes are manual and see what you think. Until then, I see no basis for your statement

"Any comments are appreciated" ummmmm.....

Later

 

[ReyeR]

How useful is having a modeling light UW?

Personally I thought it would be a handy feature to have, having the modelling/focus assist light built into the strobe. But now I find I rarely point the strobe directly at the subject anymore, so for me the built-in modelling light is not much use now.

Can one adjust the Flash exposure level in TTL mode? For example, on my Nikon Dedicated flash units, I can adjust the exposure compensation of the FLASH to -2 which would provide TTL flash at 2 stops less than the ambiant light meter reading.

With true TTL compatible flashes/strobes this feature is usually controlled by the camera's flash exposure compensation itself. However, Ike has started building EV compensation (+2,-2, 1/2 stop increments) into their new Canon DSLR housings with eTTL/eTTL2 conversion circuits, including 8 step manual control. See: http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/ucanonettl.html

Does any manufacture make a flash system that has an *auto* mode. This is RATHER standard on even the least expensive land flashes, but I have not seen this very *useful* feature in UW strobes....

Yes, Inon does something similar with their D-180 and D-2000 but it is a slave unit only (no sync cord connectors). They call it 'External Auto'.

I have not decided on even a camera yet. Ikelite would make it MUCH easier on them selves IF they had flashes with a few more standard features, and/or if they supported Nikon DSLR TTL...

They've done Olympus TTL and Canon eTTL conversion - word is they are working on Nikon now.

 

[RonFrank]

Sounds like I may wait to see if they can conquer Nikon iTTL (it's been on the market for two years, and DTTL for close to FIVE!!!). I doubt I'm going to jump in that heavy right away, but I'd hate to spend $800 of a flash that is going to need a $125 upgrade once iTTL is ready.

If the ds-50 had i-TTL that would be the way to go. I can live without manual IF I have exposure compensation on the flash in TTL mode.

Sounds like the OLY TTL does NOT provide flash exposure compensation in TTL mode??

Thanks a LOT for the info.

Ron

Personally I thought it would be a handy feature to have, having the modelling/focus assist light built into the strobe. But now I find I rarely point the strobe directly at the subject anymore, so for me the built-in modelling light is not much use now.


With true TTL compatible flashes/strobes this feature is usually controlled by the camera's flash exposure compensation itself. However, Ike has started building EV compensation (+2,-2, 1/2 stop increments) into their new Canon DSLR housings with eTTL/eTTL2 conversion circuits, including 8 step manual control. See: http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/ucanonettl.html


Yes, Inon does something similar with their D-180 and D-2000 but it is a slave unit only (no sync cord connectors). They call it 'External Auto'.


They've done Olympus TTL and Canon eTTL conversion - word is they are working on Nikon now.

 

[ReyeR]

Sounds like the OLY TTL does NOT provide flash exposure compensation in TTL mode??

I think all Oly cameras have flash exposure compensation (at least all the C series and E series) built into the camera itself. So if you are shooting in TTL with an Oly TTL compatible flash or strobe you can compensate for over or under TTL exposure by dialing a value (+2, -2 in 1/3 increments) into the camera's FEC. This will in turn signal the TTL strobe to shorten or lengthen the flash duration.
What Ike has provided for the Canon housing is external to this. It might have something to do with the fact that the 300D doesn't have FEC in the camera (I think there is a Russian firmware hack that implements it). It is also more convenient as all your strobe output control functions are there in front of you, in one place.