Drysuits and Options: DUI, White's, Diving Concepts

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My wife, son and I all dive the DUI TLS 350 with zip seals. Also have the zip gloves. I only use the zip gloves in the middle of winter. I love this suit. Easy to don, lightweight, and I can use a variety of undergarments. We have the custom made suits and are very pleased.
 
Other concern of mine was this: I could have regular latex seals installed in the DUI with the zip feature also. Use the zip feature for the gloves and have a latex seal too. I've read that people have had good luck gluing new gloves to the zip "ring" once they have holed a glove, to avoid the cost of new gloves from DUI.

I could have regular latex seals put in the DUI and use a ring system too. I just think that removing and installing the rings onto the latex seal would wear the seal faster. True or not? Am I splitting hairs?
 
I could have regular latex seals put in the DUI and use a ring system too. I just think that removing and installing the rings onto the latex seal would wear the seal faster. True or not? Am I splitting hairs?

For years, I have removed my SI TECH rings after each day of diving and haven't seen any unusual wear on the latex.

Dave C
 
I didn't get it... Why are features and options limitations? Why not zip seals? And don't wreck divers use drygloves??

Having lots of "features and options" are not per se limitations, unless you get ALL of them at the same time!

:D

As to why not Zip seals: you end up with a "cuff" that is much larger in diameter than it needs to be. Particularly a problem when you're trying to retrieve your dinner from his hidey-hole!

lobster-2004.jpg


Don't wreck divers use dry gloves? Some do. The only time I notice them specifically on our boat is when the wearer announces that they've failed.

:shocked2:
 
What I have been reading is that when the DC gloves are used with the zipseals the rings are actually around your hand, not your wrist. I have read that people that plan to do this have the arm length shortened to accomodate the rings system. Is this not true? The other concern is valve drills. Do the rings get in the way at all? This is exactly why I asked because you all really know. I just know what I've read.

Not true in my case but I am sure it can happen. I have Signature Series suit and originally used zip gloves then moved onto DC gloves. No alterations, and the rings are in normal position. I am sure that if one originally has any extra length in sleeves, it will be an issue right away. If they do hang that low, I can see that they could interfere with valve drills too. Never been a problem for me. Buddy has done the same, and same story. Only issue is that once gotten used to not having rings, they feel awfully clumsy and occasionally press on the wrist bone when doodling on surface.

About SI Techs - I didn't know you can remove them so easily. Certainly not the case with DCs because picking the o-rings constantly presents a hazard to the seals. I have heard and seen seals have set marks but if you are able to take them off after every use, I can see how that would preserve the seals pretty nicely. I don't think it's possible to use them with zip seals though?? That would be great.
 
I had to make the same choices you are now considering, here is what I did:

Bought a DUI TLS350 with latex seals, custom made because I can't fit "off the rack".

It has the capability to accept any thickness of undergarment.

I think it's resistant enough for wreck diving but more flexible than the CLX450 for cave, and way more than a neoprene suit.

I kept away from Zip Seals and cuff rings, too clumsy liike Piiki said.

I use dry gloves with their own latex seals, once you get the knack of putting them on it's a charm.

This way I have flexibility to configure my rig for many different types of dives and I don't think I should have to be bothered with options that would make things easier only in the once in 200 dives that a seal would tear.

So far I've been happy with my choice (25 dives)
 
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First, let me warn you, there are few issues in diving that have more opinions backed by less data that dry suit selection. I doubt if there are more than a few divers on the board here who have, long term, dove more than one or at most two different designs of suit. Dry suits are very expensive items and folks get real ego involved when they make multi thousand dollar decisions, if you know what I mean. Most folks dive what their instructor or LDS tells them to, and unfortunately most Instructors have limited dry suit experience and most LDS only have one or two brands of suit to sell you and don’t really understand the advantages and drawbacks of even those suits. Let me give you an example, drawn from the question of wetsuit selection, but it addresses this problem and should help you to understand what you’re up against:

I issue a very detailed equipment list before each class that students who are accepted into the class need to purchase and show up with at the first meeting.

The suits we were using at the time were, as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, 5mm, skin two side, Rubatex GN-231N, attached hood, farmer johns, no zippers. I send my list to all the LDSs in the area and freely distribute whatever they send back to the students (this is a big deal to the shops, in the dead of winter, twenty full sets of gear with no selling or inventory required: take the order, take the money, and deliver in two weeks).

One student did not go to an LDS, but rather to a shop near her home, about a hundred miles away. I got a call from the Instructor in the shop informing me, in a fairly emphatic tone, that, “No diver could possibly wear this
suit. They could not put it on without a zipper.” Now, please understand that I’ve been diving this suit design since the mid sixties, and the only people who need an inverted half zipper in the jacket are incredibly curvaceous women of petite statue. This woman was just shy of six foot, very athletic and quite thin.

Having nothing better to do (and considering that the woman in question was one of the brighter marine geologist grad students), I drove up to the shop later in the day. I brought my
suit with me. I showed the Instructor how easy it was to put on and take off, etc. We solved the problem, but the bottom line was that this Instructor, well meaning as she was, had not yet worn out her first suit and was repeating what her Instructor’s had told her. It wasn’t a marketing issue, the LDS could and did supply the gear (and nicely matched the prices of the LDSs that had sent fliers).

The bottom line is that for dive gear, real information is hard to come by. Most of the opinions that you see on the net are biased either by being the only piece of that class of gear that a new diver has ever used or being a loaner that the expert tried out on one or two dives.

The thing that you need to do is find an expert who is doing the kind of diving that you plan on doing and ask him or her about the gear. That may well not be an Instructor. Don’t be afraid to bore on in, why … why … why. If you do not get answers that you understand, find another expert. Make sure that the advice makes sense in terms that you understand. When it does, buy the gear and never look back.


With all that said, I really can’t advise you until you define the diving you want to use your new suit for, but here are some thoughts:

Crushed, laminate and vulcanized suits have no inherent insulative properties so they are totally depended upon underwear and gas trapped in the suit for insulation. As you descend you add gas to the suit and that keeps both buoyancy and thermal characterizes constant.

Uncrushed neoprene (and please understand that there is a HUGE difference between the neoprene many
suit manufacturers use and quality Rubatex in terms of compression) will crush with depth, but not 1/2 at 33 foot, 1/4 at 99 ft, etc. As is does, you must introduce gas into the suit to maintain neutral buoyancy, just as with a membrane suit, and that keeps the insulation about the same.

Which is best? I don't really know. I've had Unisuits, Jetsuits, Vikings, DUIs, and a Polaris (Rubatex
suit from a small Santa Cruz custom house) over the years. I currently have the Polaris which I prefer for shore diving, a Viking for polluted water (nothing else can really be disinfected) and a DUI that is a joy for boat diving. I use an old set of Unisuit woolies under the Polaris and a ripstop/holowfill/synthetic pile (the blue and gray stuff) set of Viking underwear under the Viking and DUI.

For protection from the rocks the Polaris is the best, for minimum drag while swimming the Viking wins hands down, for ease of in and out, the DUI gets the nod. For ease of repair, it's the Viking. There is one thing that I have in common on all three suits: SiTec wrist rings (which I use with wrist seals) and SiTec neckseal/dogcollar/dryhood system. I can easily introduce air into the glove by raising my hand and wiggling my fingers (this lets some air past the latex wrist seal) and I can get air out by careful “burping.” The neckseal system allows me to throw away a torn neckseal and have a new one in place in seconds, and the dry hood adds a lot of warmth.
 
I've owned three suits -- a trilam, a compressed neo, and the Fusion. Part of the reason I didn't go diving tonight is that the only suit that is at home at the moment is the compressed neo, and it's such a pain to get in and out of that (along with some other issues) it was enough to make me stay home. Not good.

I bought it because I was cold, and I thought it would help. It did. But as it turns out, with the right undergarments and Argon, I can be as comfortable in my Fusion, and the Fusion is so much easier to get in and out of.

I believe some people who do a lot of wreck penetration like the compressed neo suits because they are tough. They are also heavy and dry slowly (which is an issue for traveling).

On all three of my suits, I have seal-mounted Viking dry glove rings. The gloves are Atlas gloves that I pay $5 for at the hardware store (I could get them cheaper, if I drove a little further to SeaMar). If I tear a wrist seal from the ring to the tip, it's inside the dry glove (not a situation I'd tolerate for more than one dive, but okay to save one) and the seals are pretty easy to replace. If it tears between the suit and the ring, I've found duct tape works wonders . . . I've never liked the idea of a seal that can separate from the suit, and I don't like permanently installed dry glove rings.

For neck seals, get a neoprene one and you solve most of the neck seal issues. They're tougher than latex, warmer than latex, and repairable. I think they're more comfortable, too.

I love my Fusion. Ask Rick Inman about how his did with some heavy-duty wreck penetration back East just recently!
 
About SI Techs - I didn't know you can remove them so easily. Certainly not the case with DCs because picking the o-rings constantly presents a hazard to the seals. I have heard and seen seals have set marks but if you are able to take them off after every use, I can see how that would preserve the seals pretty nicely. I don't think it's possible to use them with zip seals though?? That would be great.

That would be great, but it doesn't look like they have enough room.

Here's an image of the Zip Seal and an image of the SI TECH ring system.

The SI TECH "Docking Ring" needs about an inch of the wider portion of the latex seal for mounting.

The portion left available by the Zip Seal might have too narrow a taper, which would make it difficult to get sealing ring to stay inside the seal while mounting the Docking Ring. Also, the pre-load of a tighter taper might make the sealing ring prone to dislodging.

Perhaps with an extra long wrist seal it would work.

Dave C

 
THALLASAMANIA - About finding an expert and asking them, probably the best advice I could hope for. Just really don't know how to go about finding them locally. I really do not know of any shops that do this kind of diving. I know they must be out there, it's New England for cryin out loud. I have just never been to one.
 

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