Drysuit Warming Layers & Dry Gloves

[laikabear]

Maybe try a pair of pants like 4th Element Arctic...

 

[ericfine50]

SHOWA 720 nitrile gloves, Fourth Element Xerotherm liners and Ultima dry glove system.

Is the liner in the 720 removable?

 

[Zef]

Is the liner in the 720 removable?

The liner in the SHOWA 720 gloves is just a thin acrylic flocking. No it is not removable in the conventional sense...perhaps it can be scraped out with some effort. There is really no need to remove it as it does not take up any significant volume inside the glove.

-Z

 

[Compressor]

I purchased Minus 33 base layers for top and bottom. It's 100% Merino wool. That's for the base layer.
Then on top of it I wear whatever thin thinsulate you have.
I use the Kubi Gloves but don't take pics in the lakes here so cannot offer a recommendation.

 

[ericfine50]

The liner in the SHOWA 720 gloves is just a thin acrylic flocking. No it is not removable in the conventional sense...perhaps it can be scraped out with some effort. There is really no need to remove it as it does not take up any significant volume inside the glove.

-Z

Thanks! I am thinking of trying a set with the Santi Smart Glove System.

 

[Zef]

Thanks! I am thinking of trying a set with the Santi Smart Glove System.

There is a discussion about setting up the 720s with the Santi system mixed in with this thread:

Ultima Dry Glove System Question

I think the Santi discussion begins somewhere after page 62 of the thread.

-Z

 

[stuartv]

1.) I'd like to find some better warming layers to wear under my drysuit. In particular for my bottom half.

2.) I'm interested in finding some good dry gloves that will allow me enough dexterity to operate my cameras.

Any recommendations?

I have Fourth Element Arctics, but I have found that I don't like a 2-pc approach to my "thick" layer, so I pretty much don't wear it at all anymore. I don't like the overlap and resulting extra thick band around my middle. I also don't think I'm as flexible with a wide overlapping band of undergarments around my waist. And, of course, there's always the possibility that the shirt tail will end up getting bunched up somehow.

I wear a Seaskin base layer (very similar to Under Armour Cold Gear, but much less expensive). Definitely a little bit warm just by itself. When I wear it, I usually put it on under my clothes when I first get dressed in the morning. If it's actually at all warm out, it can have me feeling TOO warm before I ever start getting into the rest of my drysuit undergarments.

Seaskin Tech Base System - Seaskin Custom Diving Suits

If the water is only cool and not cold, I wear a medium weight layer of Merino wool over that, and nothing more.

If the water is cold, then I wear a 1-piece suit, either 150-gram Thinsulate or 250-gram Thinsulate. Both of those are also made (to measure!) by Seaskin.

Thermal Undersuits for Drysuits - Seaskin Custom Diving Suits

Again, this stuff is just astonishingly inexpensive! Prices on the website are in British Pounds and include VAT. By the time you take out VAT and then convert to US Dollars, the price ends up being fairly close. I.e. 120 Pounds with VAT works out to somewhere roughly close to USD$120.

And I have been very, very pleased with how their unders all work (and work together).

The fit of the 1-pc suits is perfect, as it's made-to-measure. The fit of the base layer shirt is good and sized as expected. The fit of the base layer leggings is good but they run small, in my opinion. I normally wear size M or L in pants/shorts, but I followed their sizing guide and ordered size XL leggings and they fit just right.

The wicking is extremely good. I'm a sweaty barstard. With the Seaskin base layer plus Seaskin 150 or 250 undersuit, it is very normal that I'll take down the top of my drysuit after a dive and the inside of the drysuit is totally damp from sweat and condensation. But, I never FEEL damp, much less wet. And my experience with drysuit unders is that unders that keep moisture against your skin makes you feel damp, which ends up making you feel cold. If your skin stays dry, you feel dry, and you are much warmer.

The Thinsulate suits are more "fluffy" than my 4E Arctic stuff. But, once I get in the water and get a little squeeze on, it compresses and I don't find I need any more weight than I do with my 4E stuff.

As for gloves, I love my Kubi rings. I think they are the best rings on the market. Better than the Ultimas, even - for reasons I have posted about elsewhere here on SB. That said, whether being "slightly" better is worth the big extra cost is up to you. I have had Kubi rings for 3 or 4 years now. I don't regret mine for a second.

For the actual gloves, my Kubi rings came with Ansell G17K gloves. They cost about $3 per pair to replace, from here:

Results for 'g17k'

They are 30 mil thick - i.e. fairly thin, as dry gloves go. Mine have been holding up extremely well. My first pair lasted a full year before I finally got a pinhole in one. Between the somewhat thin glove and the fact that you can get the right size to fit close to your hand, I feel like my dexterity has the absolute minimum impairment.

I wear 1 of 2 pairs of liner gloves under my dry gloves. If the water is not very cold, I wear the Pinnacle Merino wool glove liners. They are very thin and surprisingly warm for how thin they are.

Merino Glove Liner

If the water is colder, I wear Smartwool gloves. These (only bigger ):

https://www.amazon.com/Smartwool-Liner-Gloves-Black-Small/dp/B00GMRQPJK

My hands can start to feel a bit cool if the water is down around 40-ish, but otherwise, these have been very good to me.

 

[CharlieDontDive]

I have Fourth Element Arctics, but I have found that I don't like a 2-pc approach to my "thick" layer, so I pretty much don't wear it at all anymore. I don't like the overlap and resulting extra thick band around my middle. I also don't think I'm as flexible with a wide overlapping band of undergarments around my waist. And, of course, there's always the possibility that the shirt tail will end up getting bunched up somehow.

I wear a Seaskin base layer (very similar to Under Armour Cold Gear, but much less expensive). Definitely a little bit warm just by itself. When I wear it, I usually put it on under my clothes when I first get dressed in the morning. If it's actually at all warm out, it can have me feeling TOO warm before I ever start getting into the rest of my drysuit undergarments.

Seaskin Tech Base System - Seaskin Custom Diving Suits

If the water is only cool and not cold, I wear a medium weight layer of Merino wool over that, and nothing more.

If the water is cold, then I wear a 1-piece suit, either 150-gram Thinsulate or 250-gram Thinsulate. Both of those are also made (to measure!) by Seaskin.

Thermal Undersuits for Drysuits - Seaskin Custom Diving Suits

Again, this stuff is just astonishingly inexpensive! Prices on the website are in British Pounds and include VAT. By the time you take out VAT and then convert to US Dollars, the price ends up being fairly close. I.e. 120 Pounds with VAT works out to somewhere roughly close to USD$120.

And I have been very, very pleased with how their unders all work (and work together).

The fit of the 1-pc suits is perfect, as it's made-to-measure. The fit of the base layer shirt is good and sized as expected. The fit of the base layer leggings is good but they run small, in my opinion. I normally wear size M or L in pants/shorts, but I followed their sizing guide and ordered size XL leggings and they fit just right.

The wicking is extremely good. I'm a sweaty barstard. With the Seaskin base layer plus Seaskin 150 or 250 undersuit, it is very normal that I'll take down the top of my drysuit after a dive and the inside of the drysuit is totally damp from sweat and condensation. But, I never FEEL damp, much less wet. And my experience with drysuit unders is that unders that keep moisture against your skin makes you feel damp, which ends up making you feel cold. If your skin stays dry, you feel dry, and you are much warmer.

The Thinsulate suits are more "fluffy" than my 4E Arctic stuff. But, once I get in the water and get a little squeeze on, it compresses and I don't find I need any more weight than I do with my 4E stuff.

As for gloves, I love my Kubi rings. I think they are the best rings on the market. Better than the Ultimas, even - for reasons I have posted about elsewhere here on SB. That said, whether being "slightly" better is worth the big extra cost is up to you. I have had Kubi rings for 3 or 4 years now. I don't regret mine for a second.

For the actual gloves, my Kubi rings came with Ansell G17K gloves. They cost about $3 per pair to replace, from here:

Results for 'g17k'

They are 30 mil thick - i.e. fairly thin, as dry gloves go. Mine have been holding up extremely well. My first pair lasted a full year before I finally got a pinhole in one. Between the somewhat thin glove and the fact that you can get the right size to fit close to your hand, I feel like my dexterity has the absolute minimum impairment.

I wear 1 of 2 pairs of liner gloves under my dry gloves. If the water is not very cold, I wear the Pinnacle Merino wool glove liners. They are very thin and surprisingly warm for how thin they are.

Merino Glove Liner

If the water is colder, I wear Smartwool gloves. These (only bigger ):

SmartWool Liner Glove, Black, Small at Amazon Men’s Clothing store:

My hands can start to feel a bit cool if the water is down around 40-ish, but otherwise, these have been very good to me.

this is terrific info, thank you!

 

[ajduplessis]

SHOWA 720 gloves and Weazle thermal jumpsuit

 

[Wathdoc]

I've been using a Lavacore jumpsuit as my base layer for years, and have been quite satisfied with it. It's a synthetic felt with a laminate shell that provides the equivalent of 2mm of neoprene insulation, but is neutrally buoyant. There are also matching socks and glove liners. The exterior shell material is very non-fiction and makes it easy to don/doff other layers as needed. For late summer diving, my Lavacore alone often meets my thermal needs.

For extended deep, cold stays, I've rented Fourth Element Arctic separates a few times. These are well-made and quite warm, but you might need a few extra pounds of lead to offset their buoyancy.

@Marie13 is an ardent believer in merino wool base layers, so I went to REI tonight and got a set of Smartwool 250g separates at her suggestion. My tactical impression is that the 250g wool feels light and flexible, but will be reasonably warm. (For reference, I think DUI's main cold water undergarment is rated at 450g).

I use the Artics down to about 6 degrees C, then add a base layer.They are good quality, virtually a uniform in the UK.