Drysuit Materials

[SouthSideScubaSteve]

I am still trying to decide what kind of exposure suit (semi-dry or dry) to buy for diving locally in the Chicago area (quarries & the Great Lakes). Barring winning the lottery, money is a major consideration in my decision. What it comes down to is the lower end drysuits are more than I want to spend right now, but if they will last me long term, then I can justify the extra expense now. To complicate things when I start looking at Drysuits, there are a variety of materials they are made of such as: Bi-laminates; Tri-laminates & Crushed Neoprene. The prices seem to follow, with more layers in a laminate adding to cost and the crushed neoprene seeming to be used only in the most expensive suits.

This leads to my three questions:

1) What are the laminates made of; i.e. what are the various layers? Nylon, polypropylene, rip-stop, etc??
2) What are they advantages & disadvantages of each?
3) What is the life expectancy of each type suit??

I guess what I am trying to balance is do I buy a lower end Drysuit now that I may wear out &/or my want to replace within a few years with a higher end model; or go semi-dry now and start saving for the high end Drysuit?

Thanks,
Steve

 

[mikerault]

I've been diving a Bare NexGen for three years, no problems, no leaks, no tears. It is a bi-laminate my only suggestion is to get a front entry no matter what you get.

 

[rustyshakelford]

check ebay. i bought a mares polarfit brand new off there and absolutely love it! I got a steal of a deal too

brett

 

[paddler3d]

I am still trying to decide what kind of exposure suit (semi-dry or dry) to buy for diving locally in the Chicago area (quarries & the Great Lakes). Barring winning the lottery, money is a major consideration in my decision. What it comes down to is the lower end drysuits are more than I want to spend right now, but if they will last me long term, then I can justify the extra expense now. To complicate things when I start looking at Drysuits, there are a variety of materials they are made of such as: Bi-laminates; Tri-laminates & Crushed Neoprene. The prices seem to follow, with more layers in a laminate adding to cost and the crushed neoprene seeming to be used only in the most expensive suits.

This leads to my three questions:

1) What are the laminates made of; i.e. what are the various layers? Nylon, polypropylene, rip-stop, etc??
2) What are they advantages & disadvantages of each?
3) What is the life expectancy of each type suit??

I guess what I am trying to balance is do I buy a lower end Drysuit now that I may wear out &/or my want to replace within a few years with a higher end model; or go semi-dry now and start saving for the high end Drysuit?

Thanks,
Steve

Well Steve I'm sort of in a similar boat to you. Let me tell you my experience and what I've figured out.

I initially went with the Semi-Dry. After all was said and done I went with the Pinnacle Semi-Dry and I think I got it for $400. It was what I could afford at the time. However I'm over it. I'm to this point where I'm not diving because I don't really want to deal with that suit. I've found that In 50 degree water, I'm sound as a pound and I can dive it all day. When the water is in the 30's I can get a 30 minute dive out of it. BUT it is stressful and not enjoyable to deal with it for a single 30 minute dive. It isn't meant to be worn on land, but it just isn't comfortable to wear around on land. The reality is you have to deal with it on land and I find myself needing to simply float on the surface for a few minutes to try and relax after getting to the water before I dive.

My dive buddies never seem to deal with this that dive dry.

Enough about that.

Right now I have my eye on the Dive Rite 905exp. Here is what I like about that dry suit. The material they use is bullet proof. I've asked the folks about this a few times and they don't know how to answer. but the material is a trilaminate that feels like is a 800-1000 denier fabric (use Wikipedia to learn about denier). Give you an idea and expedition duffel bag is usually made from 1000 denier Cordura. If there is a Dive Rite rep out there that can chime in with the real answer, that would be great. Also what I real important to me is the thickness of the seals. They feel as if they are twice as thick as any other brand out there. My white water kayaking dry suit does not have seals this thick. Also the inflation valve, the one on your chest, needs to be "pinched" on the sides for it to inflate. The point is if your a going through a tight squeeze in a wreck or cave, you're not going to accidentally over inflate your dry suit.

If you do not know what the difference between a trilaminate and a bilaminate, here is it. The tri is three layers and the bi is two, sort of obvious. The layers are the shell material, the water proofing material, the protection material. The trilam has all three and the bilam only has the shell and water proofing.

The advantage of the trilam will be the protection layer which will delay the wearing down through abrasion of the water proofing layer.

Bilams are cheaper because there is less involved in making the material.

There there are the neoprene.

There is your typical open cell neoprene which is like your typical wetsuit. This will have the same disadvantages as your typical wetsuit, i.e. - they are crushed at depth.

Then you have the crushed neoprene.

They are tough and they do provide some degree of inherent warmth.

A real world example. Some of the guys I dive with in North Carolina will where they DR 905 in the summer when the water is 80. They simply wear their shorts under it. I'll be in a 3mm for protection in the wrecks. A crushed neoprene drysuit will likely be a bit too warm in this scenario.

The flip side in the cold water they guys that have the laminate ones have to put on a lot of under layers. Under layers cost money.

It is a trade off.

Your most expensive, longest lasting drysuits seem to be the crushed neoprene and the trilams.

Like anything out there, life expectancy depends a lot upon the user. If you really use your stuff and don't maintain it, it isn't going to last as long as someone who does.

There is the whole thing of you get what you pay for. Buy cheap, buy twice.

If you can somehow swing it, budget $2k and get a good dry suit. Also see if you can't get your LDS to work with you on the price.

In the end, you'll probably be happier and enjoy the diving much more.

I don't know how far away your are from Toronto, but a great vacation would be the Tobermory Fathom Five National Park. You get to dive pristine wooden wrecks from the 1800's!

Good luck and let me know what you went with and why!

Chris

 

[CompuDude]

Bah. If price is a huge concern, keep an eye out for used drysuits in your size (especially in today's economy!). I paid $300 for my first drysuit. Wear skiing/winter undergarments until you can afford better. Take care of your suit and it will last many years longer than a semidry. If you're happy with it, there you are. If you decide you want to upgrade later, as long as you've taken reasonable care of the drysuit you should be able to sell it for a similar price as you paid for it, and apply that money towards a new[er] suit with the features you're looking for.

Don't sweat the zillion options re features, materials, etc. right now, just find a suit that fits. If you hate it, sell it (again, for what you paid) and try again. This is the best way to learn what features are actually important to you.

Personally, I prefer front zip so I can self-don/doff (which I can with my CLX450) but (a) not everyone can, even with a front zip, (b) they tend to cost more, and (c) given a choice between being cold in a wetsuit and diving a backzip drysuit, I'll take the back zip no problem. That's what my first drysuit was, and it was perfectly functional.

Pockets rock. BUT they can be added later, as funds permit, OR purchased with the second round of drysuit, or there's always the X-Short option.

Suspender help a LOT. You can live without them, but you'll be happier with. This partially depends on location, though... some people tend to suit up, dive immediately, and then strip off the suit immediately, then it doesn't matter. Here in SoCal, we tend to just drop the top and socialize between dives, and it's annoying not to have the suspenders to keep the suit from falling. (Yet another lesson on MY preference I learned with my first suit)

If I had waited until I had the perfect drysuit lined up at the perfect price with all the perfect features (who knows if I'd nail that one on the first try), frankly, I'd probably still be diving wet. Jump in. Just find a good deal on a used suit that fits, and give it a try. I spent a year diving that first dry suit, and it may not have been perfect, but it kept me warm and dry, and I was able to afford it. And that's all that's really important, in the end.

 

[masterof0]

I Have to agree with CompuDude. If you have some patience and shop around, you can get great deals on a dry suit. Since the "you try it you buy" it philosophy is very prevalent in this industry, the last thing you want to do is buy a new suit to find out you don't like it. By starting used, you can try a variety of suits and if you don't like them, they are easy to sell with minimal, if any loss. Also note that fit is everything so if it doesn't fit properly, it doesn't matter how cheap you get it for, it isn't going to be an enjoyable experience. Through shopping around and trying on different suits, I was able to find a White's Catalyst 360 that had been used only a handful of times for less that 500. After purchasing all of the undergarments, boots, etc, I was able to come it at less than 800. Definitely a worthwhile investment. I don't know what your price range is, but there are a lot of suits that change hands here on SB at good prices, but you have to know what size you need ahead of time.

Another option that is a relatively new suit on the market is the White's Fusion. It seems to have the pros of both wet and dry suits, with few of the cons. More importantly, each size fits a large range of divers so if you lose or gain weight, it will still work for you. The truly bright side to this suit is the cost. You can get a package deal on this suit for around 1500 compared to a lot of suits where the suit alone is 2K +. (Contact Dive Right In Scuba and talk to Mike, he may be able to get you a better deal, and usually has some slightly used suits at a reduced price). If you search through SB on this suit, you will find nothing but good things about this suit.

As for materials, I would recommend sticking with a Tri-Lam. Although it is not as durable as a neoprene suit, it is durable enough for most divers and if taken care of will last a long time. The real benefit of the tri-lam is the versatility of conditions it can be adapted to through the use of undergarments and that it dries quickly compared to a neoprene suit. If you travel, it is also good in that it is not nearly as heave as a neoprene.

Having recently gone through this myself, I though I would offer some of the things I have discovered. So I offer this to you only from my perspective. Ultimately, you have to do what is right for you.

 

[CompuDude]

As for materials, I would recommend sticking with a Tri-Lam. Although it is not as durable as a neoprene suit, it is durable enough for most divers and if taken care of will last a long time. The real benefit of the tri-lam is the versatility of conditions it can be adapted to through the use of undergarments and that it dries quickly compared to a neoprene suit. If you travel, it is also good in that it is not nearly as heave as a neoprene.

Just to qualify this a little: A trilam is one of the most durable, longest-lasting DS materials out there (particularly those reinforced with cordura), except for compressed neoprene drysuits. Foam neoprene (i.e., the standard stuff used on a wetsuit, but in drysuit form) lasts about as long as a standard wetsuit before the neoprene starts degrading. The compressed stuff lasts longer. Trilams can easily last 10+ years with reasonable care. I think my first DS was about 12 years old when I bought it, and from what I understand, the guy I sold it to (after I dove it for a year) is still diving it two years later.

 

[Bruce Justinen]

Hi this is Bruce from SEASOFT SCUBA, I wrote this article for one of the dive magazines recently and thought it might be helpful to you. I personally think that neoprene is a better material for a drysuit, the thickness and type being a personal preference. Neoprene is warmer, has far less drag and with todays adhesives completely waterproof. All SEASOFT suits have a lifetime seal warranty against leaks. Anyway, here is the article.


Today’s Dry Suit – Purchasing the Right One for your Dive Needs

By Bruce Justinen, Owner of Seasoft Scuba

One of the most important purchasing decisions made by cold-water divers will be choosing which drysuit to buy. In the old days, it was an either/or type of choice. A diver bought a six or seven MM neoprene drysuit or a vulcanized rubber suit and both had their “issues”. In 2008, we have a lot more choices, which can make choosing a new drysuit both fun and interesting.

Traditional Neoprene Drysuits

A six or seven MM neoprene drysuit can still be found after all these years. These suits are tough, relatively inexpensive and warm, but also can be awkward, bulky and somewhat heavy. These drysuits are usually sold as an entry-level drysuit for those who are just beginning their dive adventures.

Vulcanized Rubber Drysuits

Vulcanized rubber drysuits are usually sold as a “Haz-mat” suit. These suits do not stretch, so they are cut big and blousy. If they weren’t, divers would not be able to bend over and put on fins. This design creates huge amounts of drag and that will decrease your bottom time to some degree. Vulcanized rubber drysuits are very tough and used in situations where fuel or other dangerous chemicals might be present, thus the “Haz-mat label. For regular diving however, most divers find them uncomfortable, clumsy, heavy and awkward. There is also no thermal protection, so a heavy undergarment is required again adding to the “bulk” of your dive.

Shell Drysuits

Shell suits, sometimes referred to as bag suits or Tri-lam suits, are drysuits made from a waterproof cloth material, usually nylon, that is either glued or radio frequency welded (RFW). These suits are generally dry, fairly tough, lightweight, but still very blousy with a large amount of drag in the water that will reduce your bottom time. Some divers find these drysuits to be difficult to dive because of the extreme air migration inside the suit. Also, there is no thermal protection so a thick undergarment is required.

Crushed Neoprene Drysuits

Crushed neoprene suits are very expensive and once were at the top of the food chain for drysuits. These suits are made from neoprene that has been physically crushed by pressure. This pressure fractures the air-cells and “fuses” the neoprene into a very, very tough material. However, because the air has escaped through the crushing process, there is no thermal protection and virtually all of the elasticity of the neoprene is gone. This makes these suits both less comfortable and bulky. These drysuits need to be made very loose fitting due to the lack of elasticity and again this increases drag. These suits are resistant to pressure though, and they tend to last for a larger number of dives.

Compressed Neoprene Drysuits

Compressed neoprene drysuits are said to be the fastest growing segment of the drysuit business. They are really tough because they are “chemically” compressed. This type of neoprene is characterized by using a mixture of ingredients that causes the air-cells in this type of neoprene to compress or “shrink” as they cool. This makes the neoprene very tough and resistant to normal compression when diving.
The notable thing about this type of suit is that because the air-cells have not been fractured, this type of drysuit still has thermal protection. It also still has a degree of elasticity that allows for a closer, more comfortable fit, which means less drag. These drysuits tend to have a very long dive life as well.

Super Lightweight Drysuits

A new type of drysuit has recently been introduced and appears to be fast becoming a dive favorite, the lightweight neoprene drysuit. These drysuits, usually 3-4 mm thick, are designed to mimic the best qualities of a lightweight wetsuit but have the benefits afforded to drysuits. These suits are close fitting, relatively inexpensive and according to many divers, very, very comfortable. Typically they are not as tough as shell suits or the thicker neoprene drysuits and they also normally require an undergarment, though usually not as thick as those used with shell suits. Close fitting, they have very little drag so they can extend your bottom time over the suits with more bulk and, of course, less drag means more efficient movement through the water which requires less effort, thus less air.

Whatever dry suit you choose, make sure it fits you properly, and that you are aware of the pros and cons of the suit you are considering. Your local dive store can provide you with further information and assistance.



Authors’ Note:
Bruce Justinen is the owner of Seasoft Scuba. Bruce is an avid diver and his company has been growing at a steady rate over the last twenty-five years.

“I have a SEASOFT 3000 Ti drysuit. This is a 3 MM compressed neoprene drysuit with wonderful tennis shoe type booties and a very comfortable pattern that allows me great freedom of movement. Not only am I warmer than I ever was in the several shell suits I used to use, but I get an average of 10 more minutes of bottom time because I am warmer, faster and have greatly reduced the drag of the suit.
Next month we will talk about seals, valves, zippers, and pee valves, I am sure you can hardly wait.”

 

[msg]

My first drysuit was a neoprene suit. It is a nice suit and warm, can also add under garments if it is large enough. I just purchase a used, but practically new, Viking X-treme with under garment for $600. Look for bargins on ebay or your LDS. If Bob3 is still on the board, check with him, he is a Viking dealer and may be able to get you into a good suit, maybe a used one for a decent price.
I would go with a drysuit before a semi-dry. Semi-dry is still semi-wet, which may not be too comfortable, depending on your water temps. Just my 2psi.