Drysuit for DIR?

[Soggy]

Wondering if you're speaking from experience on this one ... and am curious because I have a DUI CLX450 with zip seals and zip gloves (hopefully) arriving within the next week or so.

The people that I know who have the zip-seal system have not had any troubles with them. That's why I said the jury is still out. They do seem secure, they just don't seem necessary or even that beneficial.

With regards to having dryglove failures, I do have experience with that and an intact wrist seal (even with equilization tubes) means that water flow into the arm is greatly reduced. The zip-drygloves are basically a semi-permanent fixture, meaning when you gear up, you have to have your gloves on all the time. People I know with them have found this annoying, especially when adjusting the neck seal...something that requires a bit of tactile sensation.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I had a DUI TLS350 that was not built for the type of diving I do. They don't hold up well to cliff climbing or diving in and around rusty wrecks. Besides, Michael Kane(MHK) told me they're not the proper shell suit. I sold it and bought a Diving Concepts crushed neoprene suit from Andrew Georgitsis. Hopefully I'll fit in with the DIR crowd.

 

[Aquawookie]

Zippers are a pain in the butt to get in and out of and everything in your pockets should be clipped off, anyhow, so it's not a big deal if the thing opens up unexpectedly. Zippers also can fail making it impossible to get into your pocket when you might need it most...say you lose your mask for example, I don't want to be messing around struggling to open a zipper when I'm trying to get to my backup mask.

I maintain my zippers and seals and have never had a zipper on any of my equipment fail. EVER! Can you say preventive maintenance? DIR is as much a frame of mind as it is a set of equipment or rules.

A one-piece system is better in terms of keeping you warm, as a 2 piece can bunch up and leave areas of exposed skin.

True, but have you ever had to go to the can on a 65 degree day with a 10mph wind from the north blowing? It gets a little chilly with your drysuit and thermals around your ankles, don'tcha think. I've never had a problem arranging things so there is no exposed parts, and I have LOTS of parts to protect too. The system I use is a farmer john type pants with a sweater type under it. Lots of cuddly layers on the torso. But quick access to the restroom as needed while still maintaining thermal coverage on the torso. I Also have 3 sets of long johns, in different weights, but I prefer the 2 or 3 piece system.

I think the jury is still out on this one from a DIR perspective. The zip-seal provides an additional failure point and really doesn't serve much purpose since a wrist seal can be replaced in an hour or so. The zip-drygloves are worthless, IMO, since they provide an additional failure point and don't allow you to maintain an inner seal, thus making a dryglove failure a catestrophic event in very cold water.

Sorry but that just don't make sense. Any seal is a possible point of failure. It dose not matter what kind of seal it is, permenent/bonded or O ring/tension, the seal can be compromised many ways and the outcome is the SAME. The utility in having a quick change system which allows fast repairs and diverse seal options (short cuff/dual cuff/straight glove/cold glove) will, IMHO, outweigh the possible consequences of a failed seal which can happen at any time anyway.

Just because I stated I am not a certified DIR type dose not mean I have not read up on the concepts and spent the time THINKING about my equipment and possible problems and responses. In fact thinking about diving is one of my favorite free time occupations. My favorite occupation is diving of course.

Safe and happy diving.
Paul.

 

[jonnythan]

I maintain my zippers and seals and have never had a zipper on any of my equipment fail. EVER! Can you say preventive maintenance? DIR is as much a frame of mind as it is a set of equipment or rules.

Zippers fail, zippered pockets are not DIR. Start a thread in the DIR forum if you want to discuss why this is so.

True, but have you ever had to go to the can on a 65 degree day with a 10mph wind from the north blowing? It gets a little chilly with your drysuit and thermals around your ankles, don'tcha think. I've never had a problem arranging things so there is no exposed parts, and I have LOTS of parts to protect too. The system I use is a farmer john type pants with a sweater type under it. Lots of cuddly layers on the torso. But quick access to the restroom as needed while still maintaining thermal coverage on the torso. I Also have 3 sets of long johns, in different weights, but I prefer the 2 or 3 piece system.

My undies have a two-way chest zipper that lets me relieve myself without taking it off.

Sorry but that just don't make sense. Any seal is a possible point of failure. It dose not matter what kind of seal it is, permenent/bonded or O ring/tension, the seal can be compromised many ways and the outcome is the SAME. The utility in having a quick change system which allows fast repairs and diverse seal options (short cuff/dual cuff/straight glove/cold glove) will, IMHO, outweigh the possible consequences of a failed seal which can happen at any time anyway.

This is why the jury is still out. If zip seals are more likely to fail than Aquasealed seals, then my guess is that they won't be accepted as DIR. If they prove themselves to be 100% as reliable as the glued seals, my guess is that they will be.

The Zip Glove is definitely not DIR though, for reasons stated in previous posts.

Just because I stated I am not a certified DIR type dose not mean I have not read up on the concepts and spent the time THINKING about my equipment and possible problems and responses. In fact thinking about diving is one of my favorite free time occupations. My favorite occupation is diving of course.

Safe and happy diving.
Paul.

Keep in mind that the original poster specifically asked about DIR.

 

[Dryglove]

True, but have you ever had to go to the can on a 65 degree day with a 10mph wind from the north blowing? It gets a little chilly with your drysuit and thermals around your ankles, don'tcha think. I've never had a problem arranging things so there is no exposed parts, and I have LOTS of parts to protect too. The system I use is a farmer john type pants with a sweater type under it. Lots of cuddly layers on the torso. But quick access to the restroom as needed while still maintaining thermal coverage on the torso. I Also have 3 sets of long johns, in different weights, but I prefer the 2 or 3 piece system.

Thank goodness for p-valves now if you have to go #2 :11:

 

[Soggy]

True, but have you ever had to go to the can on a 65 degree day with a 10mph wind from the north blowing? It gets a little chilly with your drysuit and thermals around your ankles, don'tcha think.

Yeah, try 20 degrees. That's why the zipper goes down pretty close to your wang. As for "No. 2", I try to go before I leave dock.

I maintain my zippers and seals and have never had a zipper on any of my equipment fail. EVER! Can you say preventive maintenance? DIR is as much a frame of mind as it is a set of equipment or rules.

Good for you. I've never run out of air or had a regulator failure, but I still practice air shares....They *can* fail and I certainly wouldn't want to be in a tough situation when it did. Velcro provides has no disadvantages since everything is clipped off.

Sorry but that just don't make sense. Any seal is a possible point of failure. It dose not matter what kind of seal it is, permenent/bonded or O ring/tension, the seal can be compromised many ways and the outcome is the SAME.

Call me crazy, but the probabillity of a ziplock style seal coming undone and leaking vs. a glued on seal is pretty obvious. Like I said, the jury is still out (from a DIR perspective)....but the dryglove issue is very real and, *for me*, makes zip gloves an absolute "NO." I dive in pretty darned cold water up here and a dryglove failure is a real problem if it ends up soaking your entire body.

Just because I stated I am not a certified DIR type dose not mean I have not read up on the concepts and spent the time THINKING about my equipment and possible problems and responses. In fact thinking about diving is one of my favorite free time occupations. My favorite occupation is diving of course.

Maybe you think I'm brainwashed, but the opinions I stated are 100% my own formed independent of any GUE instructor.

 

[Aquawookie]

Keep in mind that the original poster specifically asked about DIR.

Good counter arguements, every single one, and I stand corrected.

Paul.

 

[BCS]

Hi guys, what drysuit are most of the GUE-trained DIR people using?

Mine will be put to use mostly in the Great Lakes for wrecks and cold quarries. Also what undies? This will be my first suit with plans for future tech and cave training. I like to buy right--buy once, and am willing to invest the $.

Leaning toward the DUI TLS 350 Sig with velcro bellows on both thighs, P-valve, hood, etc. What about the CLX 450 or a Diving Concepts Ultra Pro Flex? I'm worried that the 450 will be restrictively stiff.

What about the Rockboots, are you DIR guys using these with Jets/Turtles?

Please answer any one of these questions, any input would be greatly apprreciated.

Schwim

Hi Schwim,
Suits that fit the bill will satisfy a few criteria. Ideally, the diver should look for a tri-lam suit that is cut well to avoid excess material creating drag and still allow for unrestricted movement to allow for easy swimming, valve shutdowns/opening, and any other task required underwater. A pee valve is nice to have as well. Pockets here in the Great White North should be large enough to allow a dry gloved hand to easily be able to access it's contents and should be "velcor" closure. The placement of the pockets is crucial to reducing drag, as ill placed pockets make great "sea anchors" of they are attached to close to the front of the upper leg. The pockets need to be attached to the sides of the upper legs of the drysuit. This should place them in the slipstream created by the diver's shoulders. The pockets should also be placed so that the bottom of the pocket is at the same level as your fingertips when you rest your hands at your sides. Ideally, the suit will have a front zip with a protective covering over the actual drysuit zipper. Placement of the zipper is important too because where the weight of the harness lies will put stress on the zipper as will bending at the waist if the zipper crosses that fold at the waist.
As far as boots go, I (and many others) recommend the turbo-soles.
I live in Northville, Michigan and will be teaching the DIRf in Gilboa. I dive locally at least once a week and am always happy to answer any questions concerning the DIRf. I own and use both the DC suit and the TLS350 Signature and am happy to meet and show you both suits. I am alos happy to explain the "why's" of the recommendations made above. Just let me know if I can help.

dive safe!---brando

 

[Schwim]

Thanks all for the info. Brando, just sent you a PM.

Schwim

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The placement of the pockets is crucial to reducing drag, as ill placed pockets make great "sea anchors" of they are attached to close to the front of the upper leg. The pockets need to be attached to the sides of the upper legs of the drysuit. This should place them in the slipstream created by the diver's shoulders. The

This would eliminate Northern Diver as a DIR drysuit, as they place their pockets on the front of the thigh ... it's convenient for the reach, but it does slow ya down some ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)