Dry Suit - Learning to dive dry

[simbrooks]

So far in my few DS hours i have had a little of everything, a whole bunch of reading, a bit of personal guidance, some self learning (with frustration thrown in for good effect), some video, some basic instruction/time with instructor and just playing around - pretty much in that order. I now have a good 3-4 hours in the suit, still not 100% with it (mostly working out quite where i want to be to call myself trimmed - its not quite as easy to be completely flat like i was in a wetsuit), a few more hours this weekend should help. Quick question on that whole trimmed thing - does everyone find themselves in slightly different trim in a DS compared to a wetsuit? To avoid too much air moving towards you feet, from photos i have seen of "properly trimmed" DS divers they have a little knee drop, in a wetsuit i can be completely flat, but that hasnt seemed possible in a DS so far, nor do i see it elsewhere with other DS divers (whatever training they may have had), just wondering if my eyes are deceiving me or if anyone else notices that too?

BTW - my DS instructor is also my cave instructor and he is completely on the wing for control and next to no air in the DS, maybe one or two puffs every 40ft or so.

 

[peter_dorset]

Thanks to every one that has replied so far.

I can understand the concerns about lack of training which is why I want to get feedback. The reason I asked the question is because some PADI courses seem to be not very informative take Advanced Open Water for example; do you regard it good value for money?

I don’t the training is very basic you learn more about diving from diving than on the course. Now I did do the course after completing about 20 dives so buoyancy was already stabilized to some extent so perhaps that’s why I did not feel that it provided much benefit. The only thing that I learned was the effect of Narcosis first hand and whilst that was invaluable I could have experienced that with any deep dive and with an experienced diver.

The PADI Nitrox course on the other hand is highly recommended and I regard it as excellent.

I am still awaiting the DVD but I would imagine that the actions to take would be:

<DMP>

I image I would Remove the hose from the dry suit inflator since that will stop the problem and if necessary pull the neck seal or wrist away to let the air escape. Use the BC to safely ascend.

Is this correct?

Many thanks & happy diving

Peter

 

[Boogie711]

So far in my few DS hours i have had a little of everything, a whole bunch of reading, a bit of personal guidance, some self learning (with frustration thrown in for good effect), some video, some basic instruction/time with instructor and just playing around - pretty much in that order. I now have a good 3-4 hours in the suit, still not 100% with it (mostly working out quite where i want to be to call myself trimmed - its not quite as easy to be completely flat like i was in a wetsuit), a few more hours this weekend should help. Quick question on that whole trimmed thing - does everyone find themselves in slightly different trim in a DS compared to a wetsuit? To avoid too much air moving towards you feet, from photos i have seen of "properly trimmed" DS divers they have a little knee drop, in a wetsuit i can be completely flat, but that hasnt seemed possible in a DS so far, nor do i see it elsewhere with other DS divers (whatever training they may have had), just wondering if my eyes are deceiving me or if anyone else notices that too?

BTW - my DS instructor is also my cave instructor and he is completely on the wing for control and next to no air in the DS, maybe one or two puffs every 40ft or so.

If your suit fits, and you use your bouyancy compensator to compensate for bouyancy and your drysuit to keep you dry, there should be no issues whatsoever with keeping and maintaining perfect trim. After all, if you don't have a big sack of air floating around you, you don't have to worry about it migrating up to your feet.

I used to get 'droopy knees' all the time, and in fact, it's something that I continue to work on. Its nothing to do with floaty feet - it's feeling head heavy. You feel like if you completely flatten out that you're going to end up doing a headstand. The solution to this is to arch your back - the first few times it will feel unnatural. Try to make it feel like your pelvis is the lowest point, and not your knees. That will eliminate the pitching over sensation, and generally flatten you out in the water.

 

[wcl]

Ok - now we are getting a little overboard here.

I agree just watching a DVD and going for it is not a really good idea. But if you can watch your DVD then find an experienced buddy who dives a drysuit and pick his brain. After that go out with experienced drysuit buddy - not inexperienced drysuit wife - and do some easy peasie dives in it to get it down. I see no issues with that.

Unless of course you have money burning a hole in your pocket or want to collect cards... then by all means go take another course.

Hi,

One caveat: An experienced buddy may or may not be able to mentor someone through the learning experience.

In all cases of learning, experience per se does not always translate into ability to transfer that experience to others.

I have seen very experienced non-instructors who are excellent at teaching and mentoring, and I have seen very experienced "mentors" who cause more harm than good (the student would be much better off on their own with a book or video).

A formal training situation improves the odds (nothing is guaranteed, of course) that the person instructing is in fact capable of imparting the necessary knowledge and skills to the student.

The moral of the thought: Choose your mentors wisely! Experience is a necessary but not a sufficient qualification.

Cheers,
Walter

 

[Squalus]

<DMP>

I image I would Remove the hose from the dry suit inflator since that will stop the problem and if necessary pull the neck seal or wrist away to let the air escape. Use the BC to safely ascend.

Is this correct?

Many thanks & happy diving

Peter

Yes, have you looked elsewhere for classes?

 

[TekDiveGirl]

...that often gets to dive with people new to drysuits that didn't listen to an instructor, I have to advise for the class as well. The difference in my response is that a drysuit class will try to teach you to control your buoyancy with the drysuit (depending on the instructor). I recommend against this.

I was fortunate enough to have two different instructors that taught two different ways of controlling buoyancy. One is a photographer and uses the drysuit as all he has to do to vent is to shrug his shoulder. The other feels that a BC costs good money... use it!

I follow the second school. The BC works far better for buoyancy control. Drysuit air is for comort (warmth or suit squeeze). Remembering this minimizes your incidents of air bubbles traveling in the drysuit and causing issues with your ascent.

A class will give you the chance to pick the brain of an instructor and let the instructor work you through a couple of bad scenarios in drysuit diving (ie. plugged vent due to improper insulation... let's just say that the solution to this one gets cold as I have actually witnessed this in real life) and give you practice righting yourself on a feet-first ascent.

More training and information never hurt anyone. Enjoy your drysuit!

Ok - he is possibly going to get training that he is to throw out the window. This guy goes to class -- and his instructor says -- use your drysuit for buoyancy. But everybody at SB says to use my BC - oh what to do - what to do!?!?!?

Maybe if you can combine drysuit with some other training it would be worth it. But I feel alone - it is an expensive class and a waste of money. It is a better peer taught skill.

I too had an instructor that taught me to use my drysuit for buoyancy. But I was about 10 dives into this whole diving thing and didn't know any better - so I did what he said. My next instructor saw that and when we got out of the water after our first dive corrected me right away.

I agree as well though -- the drysuit is used to keep you warm - the bc is to keep you where you want to be in the water. Gear for function.


Kimber

 

[simbrooks]

If your suit fits, and you use your bouyancy compensator to compensate for bouyancy and your drysuit to keep you dry, there should be no issues whatsoever with keeping and maintaining perfect trim. After all, if you don't have a big sack of air floating around you, you don't have to worry about it migrating up to your feet.

I used to get 'droopy knees' all the time, and in fact, it's something that I continue to work on. Its nothing to do with floaty feet - it's feeling head heavy. You feel like if you completely flatten out that you're going to end up doing a headstand. The solution to this is to arch your back - the first few times it will feel unnatural. Try to make it feel like your pelvis is the lowest point, and not your knees. That will eliminate the pitching over sensation, and generally flatten you out in the water.

I completely get what you are saying, but almost every DS diver in a photo or video i have seen has their knees a good 4-6 inches below their chest, just wondered if other people had it figured out. I promise i have next to no air in my DS from the time i get in the water to about 40ft, a couple of not even 1/2-second puffs and good to 80ft, a couple of puffs and good to 100ft (deepest so far with the DS). In my wetsuit i have had no problem (freefall position is good that way) and if anything is near the floor it has always been my belt buckle, the knees, head and arms are all above that, just trying to work it out in a similar manner with the DS - but its taking time to experiment and get used to it!

 

[mweitz]

After a battery of classes, I felt that most of them stunk. I didn't get that much extra out of the DS class, but it is good to get the pool sessions and have an instructor around running your first couple of DS dives.

Now, here is the real kicker. You don't take the class. You dive in a DS for a few years, and get quite proficient. You go on a dive trip and on the first dive you blow a seal. They rent DS there but you don't have the stupid little piece of plastic... gotta have the card to rent the DS.

So, my wife is a new diver. She is taking two classes. She already did the DS and she is taking the Nitrox class starting today. Now she will be able to rent a DS or Nitrox bottle on vacation. Well, she will of course take the Fundies class at some point

Mark

 

[RogerL.]

, The orginal question could have been mine as I'm right at the threshold of starting DS diving. You all are right on the mark as far as the decision to take the class or not, in the end the choice is ours to make. I will add though, in my H.O. that a wise move would be to have a discussion with the "new" instructor before signing up to see which way he teaches on the buoyancy issue. From everyone I've talked to that is experienced with DS diving says use the BC for bouyancy and the DS for warmth. The point on the c-card might be a valid point if you're forced to rent. Thanks for the input, Roger

 

[String]

Drysuit diving is far from difficult and really isnt complicated at all. Im always dubious about people spending sometimes large amounts of money for a "speciality" when a buddy thats used one is more than capable of showing it in an hour in confined/sheltered water. After that a few dives with them and thats all thats needed.

Other than inversion drills the only other thing to get used to is remembering the fact you have to put air in and out of the suit on changing depth and thats not exactly difficult.

There seems to be a tendancy these days to make out some recreational style diving activities are more dangerous and/or difficult than they actually are purely to encourage people to spend more money getting proper training.

With a drysuit i certainly dont advocate reading one and just jumping in but i see no issue in just getting an existing diver to show you how to use the thing and then obviously a few shallow practice dives to get used to it.

As for the what-to-use-for-buoyancy issue. Pretty much ignore what people on here tell you, if you DO end up paying for a course you'll be instructred to use the suit for buoyancy. There is nothing inherently wrong in this provided you are diving a single tank setup and are correctly weighted - for that sort of configuration it boils down to personal preference. For ease in the beginning students are taught to use the suit only for everything as it minimises the problems dealing with only 1 air source at a time (and potentially 4 different expanding air sources if having to do a controlled buoyant lift on someone!) so after that, experiment a bit and make your own mind up. Both methods are perfectly acceptable.