Driving

[RonDawg]

Marek, while I've never visited eastern Europe, I have driven in Switzerland, Germany, France, Austria, and particularly the UK which I have visited several times. While the driving styles and disciplines of each country's drivers vary (Germany of course being the best, and France being the worst) they are still much better drivers than what you'd find in the US or Canada. Well, except for the French :11:

One of the things I remember most fondly about my European vacations was the skill of (most) of the drivers. I felt safer at 100 MPH on a German autobahn than I do at 70 MPH on the average American freeway.

While Austria and Switzerland don't have "limitless" autobahns I noticed that the drivers still obey the rule that translates into English "Keep Right." France too has a speed limit but in my journeys I found them to be widely ignored outside of Paris, and for the most part they stick to the "Keep Right Rule" once outside the Peripherique. Inside the Peripherique, well it's just like the movie "Ronin" minus the shooting and explosions

aquaoren, you are correct our biggest problem with our drivers is the fact that we are poorly trained. Most American drivers do not get their training from a professional driving school (unlike European drivers) but rather from a family member, usually a parent or an older sibling. Their trainers, in turn, were also trained by a family member, and so on and so on and so on.

I am one of those drivers who got his license at age 16, and I was trained by my father. When I entered the police academy at age 26, like all recruits I was taught how to operate a motor vehicle at high speeds. It was at the police academy that I found out that I really didn't know how to drive a car (despite having done so for 10 years prior) and that my father really didn't know what he was doing when he taught me, my mother, and my siblings all how to drive.

jonnythan, as a cop it's not speed that I have a problem with. It's inappropriate speed that's the problem. Most if not all states have what's called a "Basic Speed Law" which states you shall not drive faster than conditions allow. That should be sufficient enough for us, but Americans don't like "shades of grey" they want everything to be "black or white", i.e. the limit is 65, 66 you'll get a ticket. So the speed limits have to be set with the lowest common denominator in mind.

I would love for us to have autobahn-like speeds on our rural interstates, but as I've stated to aquaoren our drivers are simply incapable of such due to a lack of training. Montana tried it several years ago and ended up doing away with it.

 

[Marek K]

they are still much better drivers than what you'd find in the US or Canada.
...
One of the things I remember most fondly about my European vacations was the skill of (most) of the drivers. I felt safer at 100 MPH on a German autobahn than I do at 70 MPH on the average American freeway.
...
aquaoren, you are correct our biggest problem with our drivers is the fact that we are poorly trained.

Yeah...

There are two things saving us in the States, I think. One is the much lower, on average, traffic density.

The other, ironically, is the highway speed limit -- much as I hate it. The limit ensures that there isn't much speed differential among vehicles, and between lanes.

In Germany, say, for example, with the far-right lane often bumper-to-bumper with under-powered trucks doing maybe 80 km/h (60 mph), the speed differential compared to the far-left fast lane can easily be 100%.

Of course, which is the cause, and which the effect?

And there's one other thing... My opinion is that, on average, American drivers tend to be more courteous than German drivers. And drive more defensively. Some caveats: Yes, I've commuted the DC Beltway, and driven in Boston and LA. Those horrible examples skew the average.

The courtesy part I think is directly attributable -- and inversely proportional -- to traffic density.

While Germans will strictly obey trafic laws, a lot of them tend to show merciless aggression in unregulated or ambiguous situations. Ever been going say 160 km/h passing maybe a line of trucks on the Autobahn, just to have that Porsche or BMW come screaming up behind you at 200, and start flashing his high beams at you a quarter car-length behind your bumper?

Actually, that's against the law there too... but they passed that law just because so many people were doing that.

Defensive driving-wise, German drivers just automatically assume other drivers are going to obey the regulations... right-before-left at unmarked intersections, say. So much so that they don't even glance to the left when coming up on such an intersection, to see whether maybe some lost soul (an Ami maybe?) wasn't yielding.

--Marek

 

[aquaoren]

Yeah...

There are two things saving us in the States, I think. One is the much lower, on average, traffic density.

The other, ironically, is the highway speed limit -- much as I hate it. The limit ensures that there isn't much speed differential among vehicles, and between lanes.

In Germany, say, for example, with the far-right lane often bumper-to-bumper with under-powered trucks doing maybe 80 km/h (60 mph), the speed differential compared to the far-left fast lane can easily be 100%.

Of course, which is the cause, and which the effect?

And there's one other thing... My opinion is that, on average, American drivers tend to be more courteous than German drivers. And drive more defensively. Some caveats: Yes, I've commuted the DC Beltway, and driven in Boston and LA. Those horrible examples skew the average.

The courtesy part I think is directly attributable -- and inversely proportional -- to traffic density.

While Germans will strictly obey trafic laws, a lot of them tend to show merciless aggression in unregulated or ambiguous situations. Ever been going say 160 km/h passing maybe a line of trucks on the Autobahn, just to have that Porsche or BMW come screaming up behind you at 200, and start flashing his high beams at you a quarter car-length behind your bumper?

Actually, that's against the law there too... but they passed that law just because so many people were doing that.

Defensive driving-wise, German drivers just automatically assume other drivers are going to obey the regulations... right-before-left at unmarked intersections, say. So much so that they don't even glance to the left when coming up on such an intersection, to see whether maybe some lost soul (an Ami maybe?) wasn't yielding.

--Marek

Hehe, the Ami should stop if he's not sure about the rules or maybe read them before going on the road
I have to disagree about the defensive driving. What I see daily on the Highway in Canada is much worse than what is going on the Autobahn in Germany. Here they even don't keep the quarter car-length distance and in the end pass on the right and squeeze themself infront of you while going on the breakes. Yes, even in Germany you'll find idiots on the road just like everywhere else but you'll rarely find plain stupid behaviour.
If trying to get out of a driveway, most driver in North America would simply ignore you and even stop directly infront of the exit so you'll have to wait until everything moves again. Sometimes you can wait until you'll start changing colour. In Germany, the first car will stop and let you out. I have to admit though that the driving culture in Germany deteriorated significantly since the reunification of the Germanies.
As Ron said (valid for diving just as for driving ): You don't know what you don't know.
And yes, I was one of those BMW driver that never went below 180km/hr

 

[Kim]

And yes, I was one of those BMW driver that never went below 180km/hr

Me too! I think the fastest trip　I ever made was Copenhagen to Amsterdam in 6.5 hours. Average speed over the German part was around 230km/hour. BMW rocks!

 

[aquaoren]

Me too! I think the fastest trip　I ever made was Copenhagen to Amsterdam in 6.5 hours. Average speed over the German part was around 230km/hour. BMW rocks!

BMW rocks but it rocked out for me when I got married
Had to switch from a nice 2 door coupe with a 6 cylinder engine to an average station wagon with a diesel engine
Reason: Wife decided that you just don't drive a coupe when you have a Bloodhound

 

[Marek K]

And yes, I was one of those BMW driver that never went below 180km/hr

Me too! ... Average speed over the German part was around 230km/hour. BMW rocks!

Yeah, but you guys weren't a quarter-car-length behind some guy doing a mere 170.

Were you??

What colors were those BMWs?

 

[Kim]

Yeah, but you guys weren't a quarter-car-length behind some guy doing a mere 170.

Were you??

What colors were those BMWs?

Mine was white. I have to say that it was at night - not much traffic on the road. The guys doing 170 sat safely in the right hand lane.

Oren - I feel your pain!!! Japan is: 'and now for something completely different'

The weirdest thing here is that they have the cars to do it (and then some) - but the roads can't handle it. You've never seen so many people driving turbo 3.0 liter cars at 50 km/hour in your life! :11: We all have to behave because you REALLY don't want to mess with the Japanese police - let alone their courts!. Actually unless you pay to drive on their highways (where you CAN do what you want if you have a good radar detector) then the roads are simply too small and mountainous to mess around. The highway tolls here though are so expensive that they cost as much as the petrol over a given distance - it makes it very expensive to drive anywhere long distance.

 

[aquaoren]

Yeah, but you guys weren't a quarter-car-length behind some guy doing a mere 170.

Were you??

What colors were those BMWs?

Not ususally, unless the one infront of me appeared to have fallen asleep
I had in total 6 BMW's. All different colours.
My favourite colour: Olivingruen metallic. (very nice green, almost khaki)
Best BMW of mine was Polarissilber metallic, which was very light blue, almost silver

 

[RonDawg]

Marek,

Americans too show their aggression, but in different ways. The thing about courteousness varies from region to region. You can pretty much forget about it in the cities, it's every man (and woman) for him/herself.

In Germany, the only time I really saw aggression were those who stayed in the left lane a lot longer than they should have. And then it was limited to tailgating and flashing of the high beams. Here in the US people will tailgate even if you're in the slow lane going 10 MPH over the posted limit, with available space in the lane or lanes to the left, and just to display their displeasure at your speed some drivers will even intentionally cut in front of you.

aquaoren, don't fret during my last trip to Europe I rented a Ford Mondeo diesel station wagon, and still rocketed down the autobahn in speeds in excess of 200 km/hr! One thing I can say about the Germans, they definitely know how to build a car that can handle high speeds, even if it's just a relatively mundane one like a Mondeo. At 200 km/hr (125 MPH) I felt safer in the Mondeo than I do in a police-spec Crown Vic.

 

[aquaoren]

Marek,

Americans too show their aggression, but in different ways. The thing about courteousness varies from region to region. You can pretty much forget about it in the cities, it's every man (and woman) for him/herself.

In Germany, the only time I really saw aggression were those who stayed in the left lane a lot longer than they should have. And then it was limited to tailgating and flashing of the high beams. Here in the US people will tailgate even if you're in the slow lane going 10 MPH over the posted limit, with available space in the lane or lanes to the left, and just to display their displeasure at your speed some drivers will even intentionally cut in front of you.

aquaoren, don't fret during my last trip to Europe I rented a Ford Mondeo diesel station wagon, and still rocketed down the autobahn in speeds in excess of 200 km/hr! One thing I can say about the Germans, they definitely know how to build a car that can handle high speeds, even if it's just a relatively mundane one like a Mondeo. At 200 km/hr (125 MPH) I felt safer in the Mondeo than I do in a police-spec Crown Vic.

Ron,
The difference between German cars and all the other is that the German cars have to be able to handle high speeds over extended periods, while all the other only have to show that they can reach this speed. This results in superior suspension systems and a much more solid ride. Not talking about more advanced technology and nicer materials too. Unfortunately, the German cars are not as reliable as they used to be.
The best part of it is that the German cars are cheaper in North America than in Germany