DIR- Generic Drinking the DIR koolaid

[wetb4igetinthewater]

None of these objections are real reasons not to train with UTD. Although Rec 2 divers are certified for EAN32, and EAN32 is recommended to 100', outside of nitrox training there is no requirement to use anything but air. And remember, we are talking about AOW - so 100', so 21/35 is irrelevant - since 21/35 doesn't even come into the picture until 130'. For 100-130', which is also outside the scope of this discussion, UTD uses 25/25 - which is less expensive than 30/30 or 21/35. UTD also teaches unique ways to conserve 25/25 when you dive with it.

No one prevents UTD divers from using a dive computer. UTD teaches how to use Ratio Deco, practices it's use in training, and recommends practicing with it after training to keep your skills up, for the reasons taught in the course. UTD does not prevent or condemn the use of computers by UTD certified divers after the course. Even if they did condemn diving computers after the course - there is no scuba police to prevent a UTD certified diver from using one. The way I see it, there is no downside to becoming proficient with more diving skills to have as part of your available diving tools, such as EAN32, 25/25, or Ratio Deco. Maybe these objections apply to someone else, but not UTD.

Cheers

Bill,

I had a good chat last year with Jeff and he struck me as a very reasonable person. I think I mentioned that I was interested in the UTD instructor course just for the sake of becoming a better instructor (after all, look at how well Ryan teaches).

I simply live in an area with a large GUE community (a good group of folks I will say, so if their system works for someone great! I just care that people keep diving ) and I’ve read ISE material that is critical for the use of dive computers. I haven’t seen this sort of attitude from UTD.

The best piece of advice I received for fundies was, “you don’t have to drink the Kool Aid, just focus on the skills.” And that’s what I did.

The reason I’ll never pursue further tech training with any dive agency is that Ratio Deco is something I will never use, so why bother? I’m at TDI normoxic trimix and my next step is closed circuit.

But that’s the direction I chose for myself based on several factors. What others choose is up to them.

Until the mainstream agencies have objective standards, I’ll continue to recommend the skills classes by GUE/UTD/ISE and RAID. For the other agencies, interview the heck out of the instructor

 

[lv2dive]

To be quite clear, no one prevents GUE divers from using a computer either. When I took Tech2 (a few years ago) I was fiddling with my computer, setting it to gauge mode. My instructor asked what I was doing and when I told him, he told me that was silly (nicely) and suggested I leave it in computer mode and compare what we did to what the computer suggested. I know many WKPP divers and many of the senior GUE instructors use a computer these days.

 

[Billy Northrup]

It's not an either or situation like many said. Depending on your travel needs take whichever one first that suits your timeline with travel / diving.

Don't get butt hurt if you don't pass on the first try, I went through a few try's to get it. If you really want to make it count do it in dry suit and doubles. If your hot **** you can get a tech pass and that will be your gateway drug to whatever you want to do from there. Enjoy the journey

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

leave it in computer mode and compare what we did to what the computer suggested.

What were the settings/algorithm on the computer and what were the differences?

 

[PullYourselfTogetherMan]

It's not an either or situation like many said. Depending on your travel needs take whichever one first that suits your timeline with travel / diving.

Don't get butt hurt if you don't pass on the first try, I went through a few try's to get it. If you really want to make it count do it in dry suit and doubles. If your hot **** you can get a tech pass and that will be your gateway drug to whatever you want to do from there. Enjoy the journey

 

[Lorenzoid]

I find it a bit odd that GUE F1 doesn't certify down to 100ft given the proficiency it affords its students at that level. You'd think that the course would cover a quick and "easy" deep dive to get it out of the way. It would make fundy 1 an even better course.

Hi from Atlanta, Augusta! As you're new to ScubaBoard you may not yet have noticed the oft-repeated saying here that "there are no scuba police"--meaning that regardless of what depth limits a training agency might recommend after handing you a given cert card, it's left up to you as an individual to set your own limits. What I think you'll find is that you will end up diving MORE conservatively after taking Fundies than the average diver with an AOW card that (as I understand it) comes with PADI's "recommended limit" of 100 feet. I probably dived beyond 100 feet more often before I took Fundies than after. That said, I like to believe that on the occasions I do exceed 100 feet the knowledge I got out of Fundies helps me manage the risks better.

Also, GUE offers a course called Rec 3 that is specifically designed to give you all the tools you could need (and more, like helium!) to dive in the 100-130 ft range. Most people think the use of helium in that relatively shallow depth range is overly conservative, but that's GUE for you. Better to have more tools in your box of knowledge than you may need than too few, I suppose. Anyway, with Fundies under your belt and some time spent in the water gradually increasing your personal limits, you'll have no problem diving to 100 feet if not a bit more.

 

[lv2dive]

It was some years ago and my memory isn’t what it used to be. If I had to guess, I was diving 30/70 at the time (I dive 50/85 these days). At any rate, I cleared my computer every dive by the time we finished the GUE T2 deco. The curve was a bit different but it was pretty close regardless.

For T1 dives, and even for T2 level dives (restricted to an hour of deco), I don’t think the difference is significant. I’ve found the difference isn’t really that big of deal until deco exceeds an hour. I gradually moved from 30/70 to 50/85 over the course of 3+ years, finding that 50/85 seems to result in less deco stress for me. If I was diving with someone who was really insistent on a GFLo of 20, I’d try and compromise at 30 but wouldn’t worry too much either way. A not-insignificant portion of people (in GUE even) are moving away from the deeper stops one gets with a GFLo of 20. But again - for a T1 dive and even shorter T2 dives - the difference isn’t huge in the real world.

Please note - I only speak for myself and what I’ve witnessed; I do not speak from any position of authority on GUE (other than as a former student)

What were the settings/algorithm on the computer and what were the differences?

 

[PullYourselfTogetherMan]

Good to meet a fellow GA DIR enthusiast @Lorenzoid. I'm honestly not really in a huge rush to get my AOW because of the reasons you mentioned. Because I'm not going to be doing much Caribbean diving outside of the Keys or travel dives (deathly afraid of flying) I don't expect to be needing my AOW to get on liveaboards or other destinations. I'm probably gonna just buy the Deep6 or Dive Rite long hose regulator package thats on DGX right now, sign up for the GUE Fundy course being taught in April or June and worry about AOW in a year or two.

 

[rjack321]

I find it a bit odd that GUE F1 doesn't certify down to 100ft given the proficiency it affords its students at that level. You'd think that the course would cover a quick and "easy" deep dive to get it out of the way. It would make fundy 1 an even better course. Regardless, it seems to me that getting GUE F is probably a bit more important than AOW so I'll still be aiming for that as my next cert. The ambitious diver in me really REALLY wants that rec pass on my first try.

GUE Fundamentals has never been about certifying you to do anything. It's about making you a better diver. I can't speak for the GUE training council, but I strongly suspect they would resist the idea that Fundamentals gives you license or a blessing to do anything you aren't already qualified to do. To specifically avoid the creation of a goal or objective other than "to be better".

 

[Lorenzoid]

Good to meet a fellow GA DIR enthusiast @Lorenzoid. I'm honestly not really in a huge rush to get my AOW because of the reasons you mentioned. Because I'm not going to be doing much Caribbean diving outside of the Keys or travel dives (deathly afraid of flying) I don't expect to be needing my AOW to get on liveaboards or other destinations. I'm probably gonna just buy the Deep6 or Dive Rite long hose regulator package thats on DGX right now, sign up for the GUE Fundy course being taught in April or June and worry about AOW in a year or two.

"DIR enthusiast"--NAH! Never mind the labels, Fundies is just good training. Even GUE doesn't use the term "DIR" anymore.

You mention the Keys, and if I recall, some operators there do ask for an AOW card to dive the deeper wrecks (Spiegel Grove and Duane come to mind), or alternatively to hire a DM to accompany you. But going back to what I was getting at, after taking Fundies you may start questioning the wisdom of diving those wrecks without a tank bigger than the standard Aluminum 80, which is all that some ops have for rent.