DIR- Generic Drinking the DIR koolaid

[sigxbill]

Most charters in Cali, FL, HI, Cozumel, etc are going to require AOW. They wont care about your GUE-F card or nitrox, but they will care about AOW.

It has been my experience, at least in Cali and Cozumel, that OW is all that is necessary for most charters. As a regular on Cali boats, I have been surprised at the lack of detailed inspection of certs. Most Cali boats are familiar with GUE and understand the increased rigor required to obtain one of their certs. Also, the charter masters that mention AOW (usually dive shops attempting to add value to their AOW cards) for specific sites also include "or advanced experience" to sign up.

What amazes me is that anyone thinks that AOW - with it's five guided adventure fun dives that often includes only ONE 'deep' dive - actually does anything to qualify a diver for almost twice the depth!

If a diver crossing over to DIR through gue fundies or UTD Essentials finds themselves in need of an AOW card, they could get AOW equivalent by taking gue or UTD Rec 2.

cheers

 

[lv2dive]

The issue is less the cert than the agency. GUE is not universally recognized in the US by charters etc. Even in High Springs, FL, the home of GUE, one will occasionally find a newer employee at Ginnie Springs questioning a GUE card. (Of course you then ask if that employee can validate the legitimacy of the agency with another employee and bob’s your uncle (you are good to go)).

Like @PfcAJ, I travel with an AOW card (in my case, from PADI) and that’s what I show for recreational (non-tech/cave) dives.

There are some GUE instructors who keep up their instructor status with other agencies, I’ve heard of people adding some small additional work (navigation, for example) to other classes and getting a AOW cert along with fundies or another class. It’s not terribly common however.

...

If a diver crossing over to DIR through gue fundies or UTD Essentials finds themselves in need of an AOW card, they could get AOW equivalent by taking gue or UTD Rec 2.

cheers

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

In my opinion, why would someone want to go back to a lower standard of training after GUE? To me, it doesn’t make sense and I’m sticking with GUE now. I drank the kool aid and now I’ve been indoctrinated. The technical divers and GUE divers in general have been far more friendlier and had no egos to me compared to rec divers who consider themselves instructors and who can’t hold neutral buoyancy while smashing up the bottom whenever they fin.

Not everyone wants (or can as it isn’t universally available) EAN32 up to 100 feet. Not everyone wants (or can as helium is even more scarce and much more expensive) to switch to 21/35 starting at 100 feet. Not everyone wants to use ratio deco for technical dives, but instead use Buhlmann and dive computers.

The only non DIR agency with objective standards is RAID and you can’t say that is inferior. Maybe the OP can pursue 100/130 feet certification through RAID.

 

[PfcAJ]

You must admit though, outside of the US, AOW isn’t universally required.

Depends on where you're at. Ive been to places where regular OW isn't really required.

 

[elgoog]

why would someone want to go back to a lower standard of training after GUE?

For me, it wasn't about low or high standard. AOW is convenient to have - everyone recognizes it and there's no explaining or figuring out ahead of time if your Fundies card will be accepted for the dive op you want to go with and the dives you want to do.

Are you sure? As mine says 100 feet and I was certified at the time as AN/DP. Possibly due to not having taken T1?

I had AOW when I got the card so, technically, would have been 100ft as well. This is what my card looks like.

You must admit though, outside of the US, AOW isn’t universally required.

I was asked for it everywhere I've been in Asia for boat dives and liveaboards (so far, India, Maldives, Thailand, Indonesia)

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Depends on where you're at. Ive been to places where regular OW isn't really required.

Hahaha! Too funny, but agreed.

I was asked for it everywhere I've been in Asia for boat dives and liveaboards (so far, India, Maldives, Thailand, Indonesia)

For liveaboards, I’d expect that. Outside of the US, I’m generally not asked to see a c-card. However when I arrange for trimix in advance, I do send a copy.

 

[CptTightPants21]

It depends on the diving you will be doing , but as others have alluded to, not having Adv OW can cause some issues with dive boats--you would be surprised where this issue might surface. Fundies will give you Nitrox and a drysuit cert, but doesn't certify anything like deep diving. I did my fundies in Florida and never went deeper than 60ft.

Luckily there is now a good collection of GUE instructors that are also instructors for other agencies and I don't think it would be an issue to get an AOW card while taking a fundies course. And before I get the responses, yes Fundies has 60ft depth limit, but I am sure the instructor could get in a 100ft non-fundies dive to get the deep requirement for a non-GUE AOW card. Jon Kiernan comes to mind, there is also now a lot of Mexico GUE guys who teach for other agencies. I think most of the EE guys are GUE only, but maybe they could process a card under Dan Patterson.

 

[rjack321]

In my opinion, why would someone want to go back to a lower standard of training after GUE? To me, it doesn’t make sense and I’m sticking with GUE now. I drank the kool aid and now I’ve been indoctrinated. The technical divers and GUE divers in general have been far more friendlier and had no egos to me compared to rec divers who consider themselves instructors and who can’t hold neutral buoyancy while smashing up the bottom whenever they fin.

I suspect that over the next 3 to 10 years, (if you keep diving, the dropout rate is high...) you are going to rethink this "lower standards" talk. While they might be rare (and somewhat debatable) you can find really high quality instructors or mentors with other agencies or not even affiliated with an agency at all teaching about issues and techniques that are not part of GUE. They are sometimes equipment, region, and/or project specific.

 

[sigxbill]

Not everyone wants (or can as it isn’t universally available) EAN32 up to 100 feet. Not everyone wants (or can as helium is even more scarce and much more expensive) to switch to 21/35 starting at 100 feet. Not everyone wants to use ratio deco for technical dives, but instead use Buhlmann and dive computers.

None of these objections are real reasons for not training with UTD. Although Rec 2 divers are certified for EAN32, and EAN32 is recommended to 100', outside of nitrox training there is no requirement to use anything but air. And remember, we are talking about AOW - so 100', so 21/35 is irrelevant - since 21/35 doesn't even come into the picture until 130'. For 100-130', which is also outside the scope of this discussion, UTD uses 25/25 - which is less expensive than 30/30 or 21/35. UTD also teaches unique ways to conserve 25/25 when you dive with it.

No one prevents UTD divers from using a dive computer. UTD teaches how to use Ratio Deco, practices it's use in training, and recommends practicing with it after training to keep your skills up, for the reasons taught in the course. UTD does not prevent or condemn the use of computers by UTD certified divers after the course. Even if they did condemn diving computers after the course - there is no scuba police to prevent a UTD certified diver from using one. The way I see it, there is no downside to becoming proficient with more diving skills to have as part of your available diving tools, such as EAN32, 25/25, or Ratio Deco. Maybe these objections apply to someone else, but not UTD.

Cheers

 

[PullYourselfTogetherMan]

I find it a bit odd that GUE F1 doesn't certify down to 100ft given the proficiency it affords its students at that level. You'd think that the course would cover a quick and "easy" deep dive to get it out of the way. It would make fundy 1 an even better course. Regardless, it seems to me that getting GUE F is probably a bit more important than AOW so I'll still be aiming for that as my next cert. The ambitious diver in me really REALLY wants that rec pass on my first try.