DIR- Generic Drinking the DIR koolaid

[wetb4igetinthewater]

A lot of that is still true though.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8,9,10, 13 are all VERY relevant.

You got to admit, #5 also applies to Halcyon gear! Running!

Seriously, if we are talking about Shearwater, would you still say the same?

 

[PullYourselfTogetherMan]

@PullYourselfTogetherMan,

I hope you are finding this entertaining!

Actually I really am. Lots of this info is exactly why I've decided to go down this path. I'm reading every post.

 

[rjack321]

More than 50% of those bullets are valid for any computer and for some brands/manufacturers all of them are valid, especially at the Triox to Tech1 levels when you are still learning.

About 6 years ago I was waiting at a well known North FL fill station for my tanks when a popular and often widely recommended cave and tech instructor at the time (not with GUE) showed up. I had never met him but recognized him. He quickly started boasting about his death defying dive at a cave called Indian. Indian has a fairly complex multilevel profile and on OC is/was done with a mix of something like 21/35 and 32%. I guess this instructor's computer failed (I don't know what type/kind) and he had "NO IDEA" how much deco he had to do. I thought to myself "that's not something I would boast about..."

This instructor has been recommended right here on SB, taught hundreds of students from around the US, and probably the world "deco diving". And he had "NO IDEA" how much deco was needed? 15, 30, 45, 60, 75mins? no clue at all? If the instructor had no idea, how savy do you think his myriad of students would be in the same circumstances?

Don't even try to tell me those bullets are outdated or inapplicable.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Ps some of those criticisms are still very much valid.

I think the issue is poor training, and a lack of understanding of algorithms. I'd pay for a good course getting into algorithms and getting into the dirty details of how different dive profiles result in different deco requirements.

 

[PfcAJ]

You got to admit, #5 also applies to Halcyon gear! Running!

Seriously, if we are talking about Shearwater, would you still say the same?

Buy it nice or buy it twice.

Shearwater is good. I own one. But nearly all of those points still apply even with shearwaters. They might not lock you out but they still create dependency.

 

[rjack321]

I think the issue is poor training, and a lack of understanding of algorithms. I'd pay for a good course getting into algorithms and getting into the dirty details of how different dive profiles result in different deco requirements.

You can take all the book classes and stare at powerpoints until your eyes cross.
But if you leave class and only look at your computer for the next 2 years and 60 deco dives, you will never really "get it" to the point where that after 2.5 hours in a cave like Indian and your computer dies on the exit you can with minimal stress extrapolate a profile that gets you out of the water.

Carrying 2 shearwaters is just layering on gear to solve a (mental) skills issue

 

[gobuyastick]

Has this friend taken GUE courses beyond Fundies? I think a lot of people leave Fundies with the impression that GUE "forbids" computers, as though they feel the GUE Scuba Police are watching them, and if they deviate from what was taught in class, they are not "real" GUE divers. See Post #32 above, where Kate relates a story from her Tech 2 class. The Rule of 130 works great for many dives I do, but I have to believe I am like most GUE rec divers in that I also keep an eye on what my computer says.

This person is a gue cave 2 tech 1 diver, they can do whatever they want however to me its appears silly to me when doing these shallow rec dives in the 40-70ft range. To each their own

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

You can take all the book classes and stare at powerpoints until your eyes cross.

I'm talking about actually learning, as opposed being exposed to information.

I have found in the process of becoming an instructor that CDs/ITs/instructors at various level confuse "teaching" with "regurgitating." If a student of mine hasn't retained the important material, have I actually taught them? Of course, if a student stops diving and forgets all that, that isn't on me. But if they continue to dive consistently.

But if you leave class and only look at your computer for the next 2 years and 60 deco dives, you will never really "get it" to the point where that after 2.5 hours in a cave like Indian and your computer dies on the exit you can with minimal stress extrapolate a profile that gets you out of the water.

I would hope that people would have a hard copy of their dive plan, as well as variations there of. People shouldn't be screwing around and winging it.

Carrying 2 shearwaters is just laying on gear to solve a (mental) skills issue

What do you do if your bottom timer dies on you?

Here is the thing that we need to remember. Dive computers are impervious to stress. People are not. boulderjohn related a story where two UTD divers were in a cave. Things went south and one died. The surviving diver needed his DC to tell him he had a lot more deco than he would have thought.

 

[EireDiver606]

And if you consume the GUE Kool-Aid, anything over 100' requires Helium. . . and your dive computer is evil

That’s rubbish. IMO, the kool aid is being a part of an organisation which promotes education, conservation and exploration.

I’m indoctrinated already...

 

[rjack321]

I'm talking about actually learning, as opposed being exposed to information.

If you aren't doing the dives you'll never really learn it.

I would hope that people would have a hard copy of their dive plan, as well as variations there of. People shouldn't be screwing around and winging it.

See the ad nauseum number of threads on ratio deco. Plans break.

Here is the thing that we need to remember. Dive computers are impervious to stress. People are not. boulderjohn related a story where two UTD divers were in a cave. Things went south and one died. The surviving diver needed his DC to tell him he had a lot more deco than he would have thought.

Yea well some of those boulderjohn incidents:
1) wasn't GUE training - it was the bastard stepchild UTD
2) one incident was at altitude which they dismissed as irrelevant (based on erroneous UTD propaganda that is easily refuted with 15mins of actual dive planning and research)
2) one serious hit was after a ridiculously aggressive dive and they were warned beforehand (at least once by me here on SB that the way they were diving was outside the bounds of what they should be)
3) their instructor was (and still is) an idiot who is no longer teaching.

What do you do if your bottom timer dies on you?

On CCR I use a computer on a fisher cable with depth/time/ppO2 all at a glance. Plus I carry a spare bottom timer, plus a buddy with a redundant brain and a minimum of a 3rd depth gauge/timer.

If the computer dies but I still have ppO2 I have (for practice, I was not actually separated) derived a backup plan. RD on constant ppO2 can be done, but its more aggressive than I actually want to use at 49yo.

If I am bailed I have developed backup OC exit plans. These are pretty easy and the constant ppO2 leading up to the bailout usually makes the following OC ascent/exit a bit on the conservative side. I don't make it a habit to go to OC bailout much though. I did once from 190ft and it was a huge nothingburger, at least on my Meg so I haven't bothered repeating it.

Over 10 years as an open circuit tech diver (mostly in gauge mode) provides - for me - the foundations to do this, not a class. You have to do the dives, you aren't going to intuitively know your obligations (plus or minus an axe width) without the experience over time and dives.

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