"Drifting Dan" Carlock wins $1.68 million after being left at sea

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Can someone tell me how Dan's acts "excused" the acts of the DM? Cuz the results don't bear that out. An excuse means that Dan's acts superceded the DM's acts and the DM pays nothing (I am including all defendants by "DM")

On the other hand, did Dan's acts potentially increase his damages? The jury obviously thought the evidence showed that. And it reduced his award based upon that percentage. But it didn't excuse the DM, and I am sure the insurance company's won't feel "excused" signing the 1.68 M check (assuming it or a portion of it gets paid).

There is something called contributory (or comparative, more precisely) negligence in this country. Negligence of each defendant is weighed against the negligence of all of the other defendants, and the plaintiff. Isn't that the most fair?

ChrisM, I don't think anyone believes that the jury felt that Dan's acts "excused" the DM's. I believe some think that there are other posters in here who feel that way...I think they are simply reacting to what they see as others' opinions that Dan's errors somehow lesson the egregiousness of the DM's acts. Some posters in here seem to really harp on what Dan did wrong, when (I believe the point is) Dan's errors have nothing whatsoever to do with the DM's errors. Nothing that Dan did caused the DM to do what he did. Dan's mistakes did not cause the DM to botch the roll calls and direct the search to the wrong location, and should not even be taken into consideration in that aspect of it.

The damage caused by the DM's acts - that's where Dan's own errors come into play. Clearly, the jury felt that Dan contributed at least partially to his own damage. Thus the reduction from 2 mil to 1.68. Given what I now know about this case, I tend to agree with this percentage.
 
I also did not see anything in the suit asking for an industry standard for checking divers in and out of the water. If that was his intention, why did that not make it into his suit (or a secondary suit if it could not be added). Where is his activism to get things changed?

I never heard of anybody being able to sue for anything besides money, can you even do that? File a lawsuit requesting a change in an industry standard? Maybe you can, but I never heard of that.

I have heard of civil rights lawsuits but those are to get a particular law declared unconstitutional, and in this case, we are dealing with voluntary standards, and not a law. So the only way that I can think of for someone to get those standards changed would be to sue for a lot of money, and hope that the industry adopts new standards, or enforces the ones that they already have.

So asking for monetary damages in a lawsuit is his activism, and the only one that he could realistically perform. It's not like he is going to say "I'm not going to sue, instead I'm going to spend five years picketing dive shops or circulating petitions". Or am I missing something...?
 
I never heard of anybody being able to sue for anything besides money, can you even do that?
Yes you can--it's called an "injunction." But courts prefer monetary remedies.
 
Yes you can--it's called an "injunction." But courts prefer monetary remedies.

There are actually lots of non-damages remedies in law (injunction, specific performance, declaration, certiorari, mandamus, account ....), but I think his post may have been flippant.
 
There are actually lots of non-damages remedies in law (injunction, specific performance, declaration, certiorari, mandamus, account ....), but I think his post may have been flippant.

Not at all, I wasn't being flippant, not sure why you thought that. I just never heard of that, and I was having a hard time understanding how he could have sued to make all dive boats adhere to a voluntary industry standard. I don't know what the other Latin words mean, but I'm guessing that specific performance means that he could have sued to make that particular boat adopt some protocol or procedure, right? But that would have no effect on any other boat, I would think...

I guess he could have lobbied congress or the state legislature for some sort of law to be passed. However, I was under the impression that virtually nothing in scuba diving besides the DOT rules about tanks have the force of actual law. So it still seems that seeking monetary damages was the only way that you could effect any industry wide change.

But if I'm wrong, I'm happy to hear from the legal experts on the board...
 
Not at all, I wasn't being flippant, not sure why you thought that. I just never heard of that, and I was having a hard time understanding how he could have sued to make all dive boats adhere to a voluntary industry standard. I don't know what the other Latin words mean, but I'm guessing that specific performance means that he could have sued to make that particular boat adopt some protocol or procedure, right? But that would have no effect on any other boat, I would think...

One can sue for a lot of money and ask for anything they want (like an apology or a change in policy) as a condition to settle.

Winning a lot of money from one defendant doesn't "make" all dive boats adhere to any new industry standards. They may do so out of fear of another future lawsuit but they might have done so anyway since the possibility of another future lawsuit would have existed whether Dan had lost, settled, or chosen not to sue.
 
One can sue for a lot of money and ask for anything they want (like an apology or a change in policy) as a condition to settle.

Winning a lot of money from one defendant doesn't "make" all dive boats adhere to any new industry standards. They may do so out of fear of another future lawsuit but they might have done so anyway since the possibility of another future lawsuit would have existed whether Dan had lost, settled, or chosen not to sue.

Actually, winning a lot of money from one defendant is the only thing that I can imagine that would "make" all dive boats do anything. If you sue for the defendant to change their procedures, and you win, and the court forces them to make the change, how does that push anyone else to adopt the same change? Assuming that they aren't already making the change for other reasons, that is... If they thought that the new policy was too onerous or expensive or useless or whatever, they would just wait to change it until a court made them.

Again, I'm not trying to be difficult here, but it seems that the whole reason why the courts mainly deal in monetary awards in these situations is (1) to give restitution to the injured party, and (2) to make the injuring party less likely to injure someone else in the future. Since this is a civil case, and we aren't talking about jail time, it seems to me that monetary penalties are a pretty common way of controlling behavior (e.g. speeding tickets, athletes misbehaving, corporate liability, etc..)

And certainly, they might have changed their policy because it is the right thing to do, whether Dan had lost, settled or chosen not to sue. But that is beside the point, since we are discussing the reason for a monetary award. It's not like everyone heard about what happened to Dan, and then went out and changed their procedures - this has happened before to other people, and still someone dropped the ball in this case, right?

It seems like there is a sort of general distaste in this thread for the basic concept of suing someone for money. But as someone posted earlier, that's how our legal system prevents every dispute from escalating into vengeance and violence. You need to do something to right a wrong, and money usually works pretty well for that.
 
I agree 100%.

A side note on this: the judge had ruled earlier that the jury could not award "punitive damages", so the award, as I understand it, was strictly for damages for the diver's emotional injury.

"Emotional injury" - my god you can go to Afghanistan, lose both legs and not get even close to that amount, ditto if you are horribly injured in an industrial accident.

$Million payouts for emotional injuries is just bullsh1t. By the time I retire, my pension scheme won't even come to a fraction of that, it's just plain ridiculous - so the bloke was crapping himself for 4 hrs, well c'est la vie but it's still not worth that amount. If anyone thinks emotional injury is worth that amount, they've got their heads up their ar5es. What a big sooky la la he is.
 
Not at all, I wasn't being flippant, not sure why you thought that. I just never heard of that, and I was having a hard time understanding how he could have sued to make all dive boats adhere to a voluntary industry standard.

Apologies, I had misread the tenor of your post. But I think you are right in that it would be almost inconceivable that a court would make some kind of general order that in future all dive boats must conduct themselves in a certain way. That would very much blur the lines between judicial function and legislative function.

As you say though, what they can do is make a big damages awards, and scare operators into changing their behaviour.
 
1. Please, please stop referring to a settlement. There was no settlement. It was a jury verdict.

2. A lawsuit cannot ask an industry to change. The outcome of a lawsuit may cause an industry to change its practices. However, no one can seek a judgment that imposes a change on an industry. OTOH, a lawsuit could prompt the Legislature to impose laws on an industry, e.g. prohibiting boat diving further away from shore than one can swim; prohibiting boat diving if there is a current; prohibiting boat diving if there is fog; requiring divers to carry personal locator devices. BTW: an injunction can only be as to a party to the lawsuit and will only be granted when the court can formulate a specific, certain and definite order with which the defendant can comply. Also, an injunction will only be granted to prevent future injury for which no monetary compensation will be adequate. (If an injunction were possible, the courts would long ago have issued injunctions against driving while drunk.)

3. Getting punitive damages is not an easy thing. In California, a plaintiff must prove the defendant is guilty of fraud, malice or oppression and must do so by “clear and convincing” evidence. I’m not going to quote the California definitions for fraud, malice or oppression, but they are rather stiff and include things like “despicable.” To get to malice, you need to intend to cause the harm you caused or get to the point of driving while intoxicated. The trial judge can grant a motion to eliminate punitive damages from a case before the trial or during the trial if he or she finds that the evidence does not even get close to supporting such a finding. See, also point #4

4. I am wondering more and more what the appellate courts will do with this case, which I expect that the defendants will appeal. I was just reading some of the latest cases from the California court of appeal and came upon one of particular interest. FWIW: Two plumbers were working on some new construction. They tried to light the hot water heater. It would not light. They figured there was air in the line and bled it. After bleeding the line, they did not smell gas, so they tried to light it again. It exploded in flames. They sued the gas company. They alleged the odorant that the law requires to be in the gas, wasn’t. The gas company showed that the odorant was there, but explained that new pipe will absorb the odorant until it becomes saturated. So the plumbers changed their theory and argued that the gas company had a duty to warn them that new steel gas pipes adsorb the odorant in the natural gas and had they known of this fact, they would not have bled the gas pipe into a confined area. The jury agreed and awarded each plaintiff in excess of $1 million in compensatory damages. In addition, the jury awarded each plaintiff $5 million in punitive damages.

In the ensuing appeal, the appellate court held that the gas company was not liable at all. It did not address the question of whether the gas company had a duty to warn the plumbers about the pipe absorbing the odorant or whether it breached that duty. Instead, it jumped right to the question of whether the injuries were caused by the alleged breach. The court said it was well and good that the plumbers would not have bled the gas line in a confined area and then tried to light the water heater. But, then it noted that there was no evidence that had the gas company issued warnings, the plumbers would have been aware of it.

By way of example, had the gas company put warnings in its bills to its customers, there was no reason to think any customers would have told the plumbers. Had the gas company put a warning on its web site, there was no reason to think the plumbers would have even looked there. Had the gas company sent letters to every licensed plumber in the state, since the plumbers were not themselves licensed, but rather worked for a licensed plumbing contractor, they would not have gotten the letters and there was no way to know if their employer would have told them. Even if the gas company had put full page ads into trade publications, there is no reason to think the two plumbers would have read those.

The bottom line is that the court concluded that there was no actual proof to support the finding that the plumbers were hurt because of anything the gas company failed to do.

Incidentally, I should mention that the court mentioned that just because something bad happens, it does not mean someone was negligent and that you can’t use a hindsight test in assessing whether there was negligence. In this context, the court relied on some earlier cases in which property owners were sued by people who were injured by the criminal acts of third parties. In these cases, the courts have consistently required that the victims show that increased security by the property owners would have mattered. Thus, when a female delivery person was assaulted while delivering a package and alleged that the property owner was liable because the security gate which provided access to the property was broken, the court held in favor of the property owner because there was no evidence that the assailants were not tenants or guests of tenants and thus would have had access to the property anyway.

Now, turning to Dan. I think it is pretty well undisputed that he surfaced where he should not have surfaced and drifted for like 20 minutes before the roll call that failed to establish he was not aboard. Per Ken’s analysis, which I think is valid, by that point, Dan was out of visual range such that it was not then a matter of just motoring over to him and picking him up. At that point, it would have taken at least an hour or two to find him, if he was findable at all.

I think that if an appellate court is at all put off by the things Dan did wrong or by the size of the award, which is entirely possible, it could rule that Dan’s evidence failed to establish that but for the botched roll call, he would not have been left to drift. And, it is possible that the appellate court could feel that missing Dan on the roll call was not negligent if the evidence established that someone answered when his name was called out. (Remember the bit about hindsight and that just because it happened does not mean it was negligent.) While the court may not say missing Dan was not negligent, its feeling could influence it on how it views the cause of the injury.

OTOH: If the court is put off by the DM having marked Dan as having entered the water on the second dive or thinks that the DM marked Dan aboard after the first dive as part of a cover-up, then it could easily find that the incident was caused by the DM marking Dan aboard on the first roll call.

Just some thoughts.
 

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