"Drifting Dan" Carlock wins $1.68 million after being left at sea

[Ken Kurtis]

I envision a situation in which the DM is marking the slate for the second dive and notices that he had not marked Dan in for the first dive.

Zac Araneta testified that he was the one who marked Dan back on at 9:20. Zac is also the one who did the verbal roll call a few minutes later and says someone answered "Here" when he called Dan's name. (Others have said they heard someone answer as well.) So I don't think there was really ever any question about the "9:20" notation that shows Dan back on board being made at a time other than 9:20.

He also notes that Dan is not on the deck (for the second dive), so he must have entered the water, then, too.

I think that's pretty much what happened. At the second dive site, someone realized that Dan wasn't on board and though it meant he hadn't been marked as entering the water at the second site. And they may have thought, "I'm pretty sure I saw him go in" and they wrote in "11:17" on the slate.

The problem is that no one has admitted to doing that. This case would be a little different if whoever wrote that down simply said, "I did it, here's why, and it was wrong." It also might have made a difference day-of had someone said that and then added "Are we sure Dan was at the second site?"

In that scenario the DM covers up for his failure to make a couple of check marks rather than his failure to note a missing diver. He does not realize the actual situation until Dan fails to come up from the second dive.

I think you've hit it on the head. And like they say, the coverup is frequently worse than the act you're trying to hide.

Note that I am not excusing the DM--it just seems a plausible way of explaining his actions.

I agree. No maliciousness but simple human fallacies and then not owning up to it.

- Ken

 

[ChrisM]

To Ken's last comment. We all realize that no matter how big the award was, this is unfortunately going to happen again, right? This had nothing to do with existing boat procedures. I dove Sundiver and other boats both pre-and post Drifting Dan, and did not notice a discernible difference in procedures (never dove an Ocean Adv. shop charter though, so can't comment on that). From a divers standpoint, that is. Who took responsibility for those things may have changed, but as a paying customer I don't relly care about that.

We can have hang tags, or sign ins, or buddy checks, or face to face... whatever. There is simply no such thing as an infallible procedure. The procedures here (roll calls) work. Normally. When the DM doesn't screw it up. This all boils down to human error. Which, unfortunately, cannot be legislated or sued out of existence.

 

[ItsBruce]

Nothing is foolproof because the fools can outsmart anything Hang tags are only good if you remember to take yours with you. Roll calls are good unless someone answers for you. Head counts only work if people stand still. Buddy checks work unless both buddies get left behind.

But, now I ask: If someone answered for Dan at the first roll call, how is the DM or anyone other than the one who answered, at fault? For there to be liability, the jury must have disbelieved the testimony that someone answered. The jury has an absolute right to disbelieve anyone or anything. So, the answer is the jury did not believe that anyone answered for Dan.

I have not mentioned it before: It saddens me that the suit was against a boat I like and a shop I like, but Dan was entitled to compensation for injuries he suffered as a result of what the jury found was the DM's negligence, and other than it was a boat and shop I like, I'm glad Dan sued.

 

[Thalassamania]

Actually, if you know how many tanks are aboard and you count tanks as well as people, and both agree, you can be pretty sure of having properly taken care of business.

 

[doctormike]

To Ken's last comment. We all realize that no matter how big the award was, this is unfortunately going to happen again, right? This had nothing to do with existing boat procedures. I dove Sundiver and other boats both pre-and post Drifting Dan, and did not notice a discernible difference in procedures

Yes, but have you dived them since the award? Besides, I though that we had already established from other posters on this thread that they did change the procedures AD (after Dan).

We can have hang tags, or sign ins, or buddy checks, or face to face... whatever. There is simply no such thing as an infallible procedure.

Are you implying that these more stringent safety protocols are not worthwhile? Just because there is no such thing as total infallibility, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to make the failure rate as low as possible.

The procedures here (roll calls) work. Normally. When the DM doesn't screw it up. This all boils down to human error. Which, unfortunately, cannot be legislated or sued out of existence.

Right, so we implement protocols to protect us in the event of the inevitable human error. And the procedure (roll call) clearly did not work, which is why it may need to be replaced with something better.

 

[ChrisM]

Actually, if you know how many tanks are aboard and you count tanks as well as people, and both agree, you can be pretty sure of having properly taken care of business.

I bet Zac was "pretty sure" he had a good roll call too. Until he didn't

 

[Rhone Man]

Next thing that happens: California will pass a law making EPIRBs a legal requirement for divers.

 

[ChrisM]

Yes, but have you dived them since the award? Besides, I though that we had already established from other posters on this thread that they did change the procedures AD (after Dan).

I don't recall them being changed, at least not from a diver's stanpoint. Always a roll call on the back deck. If people are in bunks they have to come up, or the DM went down to seee them. Ray's DMs always did a visual and sound off roll call as I recall. No idea as to Ocean Adv.'s procedures. If procedures were going to change, they'd be idiots towait until award. Their insurance would likely demand it.

I was in Australia soon after the Lonergans went missing. I asked the DMs about procedures. They said they did the same thing they always do, that didn't change any procedures on that boat. Procedures work. When people follow them. I don't trust everyone to follow them. Like Zac.

Are you implying that these more stringent safety protocols are not worthwhile? Just because there is no such thing as total infallibility, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to make the failure rate as low as possible.

No, I am stating that this incident was not done for the safety of divers, and the protocols that were in place work absent human error. Which we will always have. I've been on boats all over the world, and in some pretty hairy places that, if you get left behind, you are practically assured to die. Frankly Cal. dive boats do about the best jobof any liveaboard I've been on.

You totally misread my post if you think I wrote "this is going to happen anyway, so don't do anything." If that's what you read, you were mistaken

Right, so we implement protocols to protect us in the event of the inevitable human error. And the procedure (roll call) clearly did not work, which is why it may need to be replaced with something better.

So what was it replaced with that is better and infallible? Like I said, I was on the SD the week after this, and several times later. They did their usual roll call, stand on the back deck, answer when your name is called accompanied by a look see. That seemed to work pretty well

I'll say it again. No matter what you d, someone will get left behind again. Just so it's clear - this does not mean that no procedures shoud be in place. It means that no procedures are infallible. Which I guess in the end means you'd better be able to deal with a bad situation (perhaps spool with lift bag, dye cannister, water etc...., I know a few Fla. spearos that dive with this stuff)

Just my .02.

 

[lamont]

237 posts....

- dive off of 6-packs where they'll be more likely to miss a diver.

- bring buddies with you who will miss you if you're not there.

- dive as a buddy team so it'll be two or three of you lost instead of just one.

IMO, solo divers who show up truly solo on cattle boats are kind of asking for it.

 

[idocsteve]

IMO, solo divers who show up truly solo on cattle boats are kind of asking for it.

Pfft. I always grab the boat key before I jump in.

That was part of my solo diver training.