Draeger Flow Rate Question

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Camerone
I didn't do the RMV exerisce in my class. The reason being I was taught strictly by the TDI manual and the TDI manual says nothing about diving the Draeger with the Oxy2, Uwatec Air O2 set-up.
It sounds like a good exercise and I will try it this weekend.
 
Fantastic - let us know how it turns out. We had to do the exercise in our training; the LDS owner here won't let someone dive the unit without a way of measuring what's in the loop - either Oxy2 (his preferred), VR3 (my preferred) or the Drager Oxygauge (last resort...'cause it's a PITA). With the way that the Drager functions, I think that it's a smart move.

It's periodically a good idea, even for experienced divers, to repeat that exercise. I know that in the two years I've had the Dolphin, I've repeated it several times, and watched as my fitness level has changed, my comfort level has changed, etc. The variations aren't huge, but they are noticable.

FWIW, I'm a smaller guy, and my average workload is around a 0.8, with high ranges up at 1.2, and a resting range of around 0.5, meaning that anything 35% or richer in the cylinder, for me, with the measured flow rate from my particular 60% jet, is surface breathable. However, I don't like to cut it that close, so I usually stick to as close to 40% in the cylinder as I can get.
 
Thanks for the info guys. I've really learned quite a bit today.
Camerone ... I'll let you know how I made out with the RMV exercise.
Other than that .. I'm hitting the R.I. coast for the weekend.
See ya,
Bry
 
There are really two overlapping issues here, whether the mix will have enough O2 to keep you alive and give a high enough FO2 to get the advantages of breathing nitrox, and whether the mix will be safe to breath at the depth you will be using it.

While you are using a SCR you are always "breathing down the bag" to an FO2 of a bit less than the FO2 of the supply gas, so a lot of divers figure its safe to base the max depth/PPO2 limitation on the inspired mix rather than the tank mix. The catch is, if you have to purge the loop, or have one other of several possible malfunctions, you could find yourself breathing gas at the full tank FO2. So if you are using 40% at 130 feet you could find yourself breathing a PPO2 of 2, which is generally considered too high. So the depth limits for different mixes on a Drager are the same as for open circuit (though many stretch it a tad and use 1.6 rather than, say, 1.4 or 1.2).
A lot of SCR users seem cheat on this, figuring that they are unlikely to ever, even after purging, to breath the full tank FO2, and that even if they do, a few minutes exposure to a higher PPO2 is unlikely to produce immediate harm. However this is debatable logic.

On the other hand, the jet flows for the Dragers, as others have already explained here, were calculated very conservatively, and before oxy monitoring was available. Most Drager users now seem to make it pretty much standard practice, after they get experienced on the machine, to use a jet one size lower than Drager recommends - for example, using 40% with the 50% orifice - to improve duration and reduce bubbling.
 
oxyhacker:
There are really two overlapping issues here, whether the mix will have enough O2 to keep you alive and give a high enough FO2 to get the advantages of breathing nitrox, and whether the mix will be safe to breath at the depth you will be using it.

While you are using a SCR you are always "breathing down the bag" to an FO2 of a bit less than the FO2 of the supply gas, so a lot of divers figure its safe to base the max depth/PPO2 limitation on the inspired mix rather than the tank mix. The catch is, if you have to purge the loop, or have one other of several possible malfunctions, you could find yourself breathing gas at the full tank FO2. So if you are using 40% at 130 feet you could find yourself breathing a PPO2 of 2, which is generally considered too high. So the depth limits for different mixes on a Drager are the same as for open circuit (though many stretch it a tad and use 1.6 rather than, say, 1.4 or 1.2).
A lot of SCR users seem cheat on this, figuring that they are unlikely to ever, even after purging, to breath the full tank FO2, and that even if they do, a few minutes exposure to a higher PPO2 is unlikely to produce immediate harm. However this is debatable logic.

On the other hand, the jet flows for the Dragers, as others have already explained here, were calculated very conservatively, and before oxy monitoring was available. Most Drager users now seem to make it pretty much standard practice, after they get experienced on the machine, to use a jet one size lower than Drager recommends - for example, using 40% with the 50% orifice - to improve duration and reduce bubbling.


Yes, but by purging the loop, your only at breathing the tank mix at depth for a few breath's, and your Ppo2 will only be higher for that fraction of the time.

I also ran the 60 orrifce alot to save gas, just really have to watch on the surface, where o2 is not under pressure of the different atmosphere's, and also at depth when purging the loop.

I also have the excell spreedsheet, which i loved using for mixing the differnt orrfice's and gases, i will be happy to mail you a copy if you like if you just pay the shipping :wink:
 
FLTEKDIVER:
Yes, but by purging the loop, your only at breathing the tank mix at depth for a few breath's, and your Ppo2 will only be higher for that fraction of the time.

I also ran the 60 orrifce alot to save gas, just really have to watch on the surface, where o2 is not under pressure of the different atmosphere's, and also at depth when purging the loop.

I also have the excell spreedsheet, which i loved using for mixing the differnt orrfice's and gases, i will be happy to mail you a copy if you like if you just pay the shipping :wink:
send me that too, leone053 at gmail.com
 
In my sheet I added depths with mixes, workload, and orifices. It makes it kind of obvious why Drager is so strict about what mix to oriffice. I then put conditional formatting on to shade it for values below .20 and above 1.4. And while its been many years (if ever) since I could burn 3l/m, I do think going up to 2 is reasonable.

When done it is a nice graphical picture, that when every thing is going well (i.e. low workload) there are many options, but, should you end up needing burn O2 things can get bad. I may not change the way I use the unit, but I may switch to my bailout near the surface when in heavy currents.

The other thing I see is that several members are very admament about having more than one O2 sensor, again seeing the distribution it shows how important that sensor(s) is/are when things are not really calm.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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